drag link? Track rod ends. Swivel Joints
i have a 1988 460 swb MOT failure on a n/s drag link excessive play - can anyone shed any light on this? is it replaceable or whole assembly only...? have had a quick look but it looks like all balljooints have torn boots.........
Hello Jonnyboy,
The drag link (link between steering drop arm and n/side wheelstub) is only available as a complete unit, fom M/benz dealer only. My last checked price from a few years ago was some £120.00.
Torn boots do not constitute a MOT failure, there has to excessive wear for failure.
It may not be necessary, but not knowing your local M/benz staff, take with you your chassis number and front axle number with you, If it is a bright spark severing you, he will not need to ask the front axle number as he can access that information himself.
Regards,
Sorry to contradict the real expert but the near side of the drag link is available separately, I did it and it was about £85. It's only if the joint under the steering arm is loose that you have to replace the whole thing.
The rubber boots are available but difficult to find - however I have 4 spare ones that I will send you.
Hi John we are replacing both the drag limk and the tie rod on a 463...the cost of the drag link assby GBP142 + vat from MB ..the bearing at the adjustable end is available as a separate item for GBP 58.50 + vat
Stand corrected,
Thank you gentlemen, I am sure when I used to go, to my dealer, a few years ago, they were adamant that the drag link could only be bought as a whole, despite that fact that the n/side ball joint was shown as, an available item (I know that because, I have the old micro-fische).
But, as ever changing M/benz are, it could be feesable for the ball joint to be available seperately, again. Sorry, Jonnyboy.
Regards,
Stand corrected,
Thank you gentlemen, I am sure when I used to go, to my dealer, a few years ago, they were adamant that the drag link could only be bought as a whole, despite that fact that the n/side ball joint was shown as, an available item (I know that because, I have the old micro-fische).
But, as ever changing M/benz are, it could be feesable for the ball joint to be available seperately, again. Sorry, Jonnyboy.
Regards,
Rakesh, I had the same experience - stood my ground and they finally agreed to get just the end.
huge sigh on this now with bloomin MB...
have the drag link ns balljoint in the garage as had no time to do job (on my '88 swb).
put the LWB (1989) in for pre-sale MOT and it failed on. guess what, the damned nside draglink balljoint. had asked my local indi just to sort it due to lack of time so i took him in the balljoint i had in the garage allocated for the swb ;)
disaster.
he has it stripped in his car park (blocking 3 cars in) as they are very busy. had to damage old balljoint to get it off. newly supplied balljoint is externally threaded same as the old one but the thread is handed opposite :(
had a, lets call it a, disagreement with MB as they insist theyre not (thread) handed, despite the fact that i am on the phone to them with both old and replacement joints in my hand :(
they now need to speak to germany, in the meantime the bloody car is stranded blocking others in, and of course lets remember that to all intents and purposes it was me who supplied the indi with parts for the job
the draglink attaches to the pitman arm with a permanently fitted balljoint at the steering box end, but an adjustable balljoint at the ns end which attaches to the drag link via a male=female adapter end piece (with two pinch clamps)
ive done several searches on the forum regarding balljoints etc and transit ones look a possible but my factor cannot trace
anyone gor experience here?
interesting - I just failed my MOT for the right side drag link having excessive play too - though I couldn't detect any.
anyhow when I went to MB to order the part he nearly sold me the tie rod end...
he even looked under my G twice and insisted the drag link was the tie rod until I pointed to the fact that it was attached to the steering box.... supposedly on a sedan they are reversed? tie rod in front and draglink behind?
anyhow i will let you know how i get on next week as i will get it fitted then. unfortunately we have different Gs or we could compare numbers....
yeah i ended up with a tie rod end too
Can you guys explain what parts are each of you referring to?
yeah i ended up with a tie rod end too
and so did i as it turns out :evil:
and now my G is in pieces and undriveable. not happy.
i need piece 23 in the picture
Aha Maxwell, maybe we should compare notes lol (is it you who is also in touch with James Lafferty?).
I need part no 53 for mine, I was supplied part no A0003308535 which has the wrong handed thread for the tie bar adjustable insert on my car. I was then supplied a4603301235 which is the wrong diameter :(
The dealer has tried "linking" the part request via MB technical with the tierod which is on the car, part no A4634600105, their response is that the original balljoint 8535 is the correct one (they dont listen to "it doesnt bloody fit.....", and the ultimate answer seems to be "you'll have to buy a complete drag link sir.."
Not happy at all here, car off road MOT retest time running out, need car bloody sold as could do with the ££
By the way, all, the transit joints that fit the G are for the tie-rod not the drag link.....
Anyone else had this problem?
No not me that is speaking to James. I don't have the part no. to hand but I think I have the second part you mention.... off to MB in 15 mins to try my luck again.
EDIT - yes have just checked the incorrect part and it is the same as your incorrect part a4603301235
Sharing my experience on this annoying MoT failure source, it was listed last year as a cause of failure (Front "from steering box" drag link end ball joint has excessive play[2.2.B.1f]).
I bit the bullet and got the whole draglink, part number A4634600205 (for a RHD car), list £163.30.
The mechanic claimed it took him 4 hours to get the old one off, after trying hammers, heat and fire. I just grinned...I don't think he had the right tool.
Aha Maxwell, maybe we should compare notes lol (is it you who is also in touch with James Lafferty?).
I need part no 53 for mine, I was supplied part no A0003308535 which has the wrong handed thread for the tie bar adjustable insert on my car. I was then supplied a4603301235 which is the wrong diameter :(
The dealer has tried "linking" the part request via MB technical with the tierod which is on the car, part no A4634600105, their response is that the original balljoint 8535 is the correct one (they dont listen to "it doesnt bloody fit.....", and the ultimate answer seems to be "you'll have to buy a complete drag link sir.."
Not happy at all here, car off road MOT retest time running out, need car bloody sold as could do with the ££
By the way, all, the transit joints that fit the G are for the tie-rod not the drag link.....
Anyone else had this problem?
What a bunch of f%cking useless stupid idiots!!!!!!!!
Part you were supplied initially (A0003308535) is # 26 in the graphic (obviously for a LHD car, which doesn't seem your case).
The part with the wrong diameter (A4603301235) is # 23 in the graphic (again for a LHD car).
(see for yourself in this link: http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=2&F=463327&A=463533&M=603931&GM=... This is for a LHD W463, but it should no be that different).
The part that you need, # 53, is A0004607348, defined as DRAG LINK END L.H. THREAD TO 463 460 01 05, as you can confirm in this link:
http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=2&F=463227&A=463538&M=103987&GA=...
(this is for a RHD W463 but I don't think it would change much).
If you want to confirm the exact parts required fror your G, enter your VIN here: http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb.asp and click OK.
But I am pretty sure that the part you need is A0004607348.
Good luck
In addition to all above, make sure that your tie rod is actually A4634600105.
In any event, I can investigate further if you give me the VIN of your G.
Cheers
Mort - I think the EPC parts are wrong as I was just supplied the "right" part for my LHD according to the EPC but the thread direction was wrong.
Jonnyboy was also supplied the right part for his RHD but the thread direction was also wrong.
We are just trying to confirm now but it appears his part might fit mine and vice versa.
Mort - I think the EPC parts are wrong as I was just supplied the "right" part for my LHD according to the EPC but the thread direction was wrong.
Jonnyboy was also supplied the right part for his RHD but the thread direction was also wrong.
We are just trying to confirm now but it appears his part might fit mine and vice versa.
Well if the EPC is wrong, there is nothing we can do except perhaps you both swapping your parts and giving it a try.
hi guys, popped into the office for a sec, my parts guy is speaking to Max's parts guy as we speak, my VIN is wdb46023327063864, looks like part no 7348 is correct for me, my draglink is a4634600105
ok for what its worth - Mark and I just spent a good few minutes under his G.
And the EPC is definitely wrong at least when it comes to 2000 G300 TDs. His drag link ends are the same as mine in regards to RH/LH threads.
Will find out tomorrow what the correct part number is as MB just ordered in a variety of possible ends for me to try and match...
ok for what its worth - Mark and I just spent a good few minutes under his G.
And the EPC is definitely wrong at least when it comes to 2000 G300 TDs. His drag link ends are the same as mine in regards to RH/LH threads.
Will find out tomorrow what the correct part number is as MB just ordered in a variety of possible ends for me to try and match...
Excellent... let us have your findings!
looks like i should know in the morning whether the part originally ordered for Maxwell A0004607348 will fit mine.....here's hoping....will post my findings, in the meantime, thanks for everyone's help
Right.. will note Transit as track rod end only...but from somewhere I have this;
.. if you have a LHD German Fleabay had made up drag links that Morty says will not work on RHD;
Made up drag link for steering for £100 delivered with new ends maybe only for LHD;
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mercedes-G-Modell-460-und-463-Spurstange-NEUWARE_W...
www.speed-autoteile.com do TRACK ROD ends for 24.8Euros each. You need left hand and right hand ends - threads are different. These parts are also used on Fords. The Ford part numbers are as follows:
LH 5 021 447, 6 163 544 or 6 792 901. (3 numbers for the same item)
RH 5 021 446, 6 163 543 or 6 792 900.
These are the same as MB nos 000 460 73 48 LH and 000 460 72 48 RH.
Here are all the G parts speed autoteile have on price list excluding engine types with track/drag links bits at the top;
MB Export 06/2007 Speed Autoteile , Germany info@speed-autoteile.com
MB part Desc Application Supplier part Euro+19% V
460 463 51 15 Draglink G-Modell LMI 12920 74.75
000 460 72 48 Tierodend G-Modell (460 330 12 35) LMI 12831 30.85
631 330 04 35 Tie rod end G-Modell F 17565 25.85
004 326 04 00 Shockabsorber G-Model W460, W461 , W463 FS 106941 99.55
004 323 78 00 Shockabsorber G-Model W460, W461 FS 106942 99.55
113 094 01 48 MAF Sensor G500 W463 , ML 430, ML 55 AMG 0 280 218 083 179.75
005 323 72 00 Shockabsorber G-Model W463 FS 112537 99.55
000 463 60 32 Steeringdamper G-Modell WILH 62.35
103 200 09 22 Fanclutch G-Modell 30-04-1625 79.95
460 277 01 95 Transmissionfilter G-Modell 30-7317 17.95
460 421 00 12 Brakedisc front G-Modell ZI 1404 35.75
601 420 87 20 Brakepads front G-Modell T 20784 180 04 T471 39.85
601 420 87 20 Brakepads front G-Modell F 16033 28.75
603 200 06 22 Fanclutch 250GD, 290GD, 300GD, 350GD F 18010 174.25
000 158 41 02 Distributor cap W 123 , G - Model 0 290 004 503 34.85
163 835 00 47 Cabinfilter M-class , G-model F 21643 19.95
000 200 58 22 Fanclutch W 123 300D/TD, G-Modell 300GD F 17856 89.95
011 997 86 92 Belt E280 4-Matic , E240 , G 320 6PK2315 26.85
126 460 08 19 Rep kit W 124, 123, 126 (124 460 0119) F 5841 17.45
000 078 57 23 Injector W126 , 463 ,107 0 437 502 035 23.75
000 078 58 23 Injector W126 , 463 , 0 437 502 054 29.95
.. all too late I know! :cry:
000 460 72 48 is a drag link end (rh thread)- not a tierod end.
000 460 73 48 is the lh thread drag link end.
For anyone replacing the drag link ends where you require the above part numbers for a LHD, the EPC has them backwards - at least from the Gs that I have looked at.
maxwell is spot-on. hopefully mine is now sorted, will confirm when its got a nice shiny MOT ;)
thanks to all that helped with this one, car now MOT'd and on Ebay....
Amazing that the Russian site was correct, EPC and MB Technical were both wrong......
Oh boy wish I had spotted this sooner.
I too am after part number 53 in the parts diagram over page for my 84 RHD 300GD, so far not had much luck with MB main dealers, the last effort had a smaller diameter threaded part M20 and RH thread instead of LH M22 as on the part removed.
I am at the stage were my dealer seems lost, I am also a few quid lighter!
Is it worth visiting someone like Partco and get them to trot out there transit ones for comparison?
Can someone confirm the actual MB part number I need? maybe then I can persuade the Main Dealer to have another go!
Never worked on a car where main dealer support is so poor, this is a first for me.
Thanks
Joe T
Well the dealer should sort it as it is the EPC that is wrong. I didn't have to pay for any of the wrongly ordered parts as I wasn't at fault. MB even has a sign on the wall mentioning this.
There are a number of part numbers that might fit. I would go in with the part numbers mentioned and possibly work from there.
But if you are positive that you managed to get the correct part but wrongly threaded then they can actually find the part from that. The correct part will have the same part number but for one digit change either up or down. In my case it was the 8th number.
I got what I believe is an M20 Righthand threaded part, when I need an M22 Lefthand threaded part.
You guys seem to have built up a relationship with your dealer, mines very much in the "thats the right part sir" "someone must have fitted wrong parts to your car in the past if it does not fit"!
So really looking at other options, going in with a list of part numbers will probably not get me that far, I may have been able to convince them to order another part if I give them a specific number.
I can't imagine what they would say if I mentioned the EPC is wrong....I don't think they would be able to cope with that sort of information.
Its all come as a bit of shock for me, normally German stuff is easy, all based on the chassis number etc, I have ordered much older stuff for Porsches from main dealers no problem.
I am getting some stick for this as I spent 10 years on the tools in main dealers, most think its quite comical that a track rod end seems to be causing me so much grief, suggestions include tigging the M20 one in, need I say more...
The Joy continues
Joe
Tell them to check with head office.... and mention that it is a common issue. You could also try taking into a MB Commercial Dealer (Van's and Trucks) instead.
Also maybe check your draglink itself as if it has a part number on it then it can be matched up.
I can confirm that the transit tie rod end part numbers mentioned earlier in this thread are actually the smaller M20 threaded tie rod end.
Did try a Commercial MB dealer but no joy, the G Wagen is a car according to them, I got that in writing as well as I emailed them to get conformation.
I will have a look at the draglink for part numbers, I checked the tie bar on the drag link for numbers but couldnt see anything. the Tie rod end itself has no numbers on it? Will this really help? or will I then need the steering box number? then the column? then the steering wheel?
Still managing to laugh about it, just
Hi Joe, I have a 1989 460 with a 22mm lefthand threaded drag link end.
VIN WDB46023827057711.
It's possible your drag link was replaced with the latter, stronger link at some time. My 86 has the lighter rod.
Hope this helps
Chris
Maybe somethings been changed. but it seems a very standard basic vehicle, no upgrades that I can tell.
I keep going back to the parts drawings posted earlier on this thread and mine looks identical to the layout shown in the RHD version, part 53 I am after, M22 LH Thread. But all I get from my chassis number with MB is a M20 threaded item same as the transit equivelent.
I will just keep collecting them sooner or later I have got to strike lucky...
I don't understand why it is so complicated.
If you have the M22 LH thread then your MB parts department can search for the same piece but under description put a query in for a RH thread.
And then compare part numbers to confirm as the LH/RH thread parts are only one digit off.
As far as I can tell the EPC is backwards in regards to the tie-rod ends.
What is your VIN?
Heres my original post in parts wanted chassis details are in there.
http://www.gwoa.co.uk/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=6426
Seeing when I posted that reminded me how long this is taking....
If you have a B reg car then the drag link has been upgraded at some time to 22mm
I would order off my chassis number
Did you find the part number of your drag link?
Or what is the part number of the correctly sized piece with the wrong thread?
I have had a good look at the Drag Link part 44 in the diagram, I found an area where a rectangular sticker had lived but no part number stamped on it anywhere. It does look the same age as the rest of the bits under there but who knows.
One slight difference in mine and the diagram although its hard to make out is I have 2 clamps at the rod end, and what looks like a small reducer about 2 inches long which goes into the main drag link tube.
On the rod end itself there is a triangle and benz symbol in the centre of the circle on the back of the the casing opposite the ball pin but thats all.
I am speaking to some European suppliers re this now, I would give the alternative chassis number a punt, but I must admit I have lost a bit of confidence in using the main dealer now.
What is the part number of the joint end that is the right size but with the wrong thread?
No Idea...
Not got that close yet, none supplied have been M22, all M20 and wrong thread.
Ok my 89 has m22 left hand thread, 2 lock nuts, a 3" spacer tube and a clamp.
The mechanic claimed it took him 4 hours to get the old one off, after trying hammers, heat and fire. I just grinned...I don't think he had the right tool.
Book time is approximately 0.3 to 0.5 hr for this job. The links are not paticulary difficult to undo.
Regards,
Mine has no locknuts it just has the clamps on the end the drag link and the spacer piece. But at least it confirms an M22 exists, which is progress.
I have just been told the M22 tie rod was only fitted to the Hanomag? whatever that is..
The different tie rods might also have to do with the axle width. On the 463s there were a few different tie rods to match vehicle with no arches, narrow arches and wide arches.
It probably took an hour or more to get my tie rod end off. And I know he wasn't messing me as I was watching. It was seized very tight. They ended up needing to use a torch to heat the metal but only after stripping the threads on the old tie rod end.
Joe - Incidentally I had a quick look at the EPC and there are multiple tie rods available for your G. But which end will depend on your tie rod!
I am so close to fabricating one from scratch and using the M20 transit units for a £5 each its unreal.
Just put my vins into the epc.
Looks like the drag links on 460s are replaced with 463 part number
4604630105 replaced with 4634630615
Well finally managed to sort this through an old mate who works at a dealership, he just ordered me a collection of them and I picked the one that was right.
He explained there is a directive to sell the whole draglink to avoid these issues, apprantly there are 3 draglinks they all fit, but from the moment you have that fitted replacing just the drag link end becomes interesting.
Am having problems getting the correct part 53 for my RHD 460. First one was LH thread next was RH thread but 20mm. Which if either of these will get me a 22mm RH thread. 0004607248 or
0004607348. OR is it another number ?
John
I can confirm 00 460 7348 is an M22 Lefthand thread I had to find someone who would order it regardless of reg and chassis number.
I can confirm 00 460 7348 is an M22 Lefthand thread I had to find someone who would order it regardless of reg and chassis number.
Thank you Joe
It is a RH Thread 22 I need so will go for the OTHER number
Thank you
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thanks guys will look further into it