wondering about winches? for 1984 300GD
I confess I raised this subject before, but did not follow up, anyway want to go hydraulic, have a spare pully on crankshaft but would like to take a PTO off transfer box ( having looked at Milemarkers as a likely supplier ) how practical is this if vehicle was not originally specced/fitted with a PTO.
Re the pully option, it appears to me that the bottom radiator hose is badly in the way, so are power steering hoses but they are easily rerouted ( as they already are on 1989 "G" for A/Con fitment)
So where do I start, apart from seeking advice from "Peter Perfect" who I gather has experience of both set-ups.
Marcus
I cant remeber if I have replied before but here goes.
You have two options;
PTO can be fitted to your exisitng transfer box. The PTO and levers are around 800 QUID and the gear you need to fit inside your transfer box is about 90 quid. You need to dismantle tb to fit gear. This is an expensive option but I have it as well as the double belt option.
You can fit a hydraulic pump where the aircon pump would normally go and come straight off the crank pully. I would personally get some one to weld a toothed pully to crank pully and use a toothed belt. I have twin belts but they still slip.
Milemarkers are slow but good. Up rate the hose and fittings to 1/2 inch and use a 40 to 45 ltr per minute pump and you will triple the speed.
I have a pto transfer box on the shelf for € 700-00
milemarkers are good slimline winch and very strong and reliable, but there are other hydraulic winches on the market, but my experiance is only with milemarker, just do your research to see what you want out of a winch, speed or power, if your not doing chllenge events then all you need is power. One thing I forgot to mention if you are using pully system invest is an electro-magnetic clutch so the pump isn't running when not in use. If bills got a PTO for 700 euros then it might be a better option as clutch and work needed to fit pump and pulleys and adjusters will come to that.
Bill,
Does that euro 700 transfer box incl for all bits necc apart from a suitable hydraulic pump, if it does I would be very tempted presuming it is then a straightforward swop.
If I decide to go ahead would it be possible for your "G" buddy to find room to bring it over to Ballygawley this weekend. PH me on 077 642 11 521 if possible.
Peter,
Yes all I want is power, so does that mean that Milemarker is good/best, as it sounds so from your endorsment -- but is that for power ? or speed ?
As I have no experience or knowledge of winches ( other than bigger=better ) I am timerous of buying an unsuitable product based soley on numbers in a specification.
I will ask around this Saturday @ Ballygawley.
Thank you both in the meantime,
Marcus
I'll give you a scenario. 4 years ago in a 280GE with milemarker we entered a weekend in wales, it wasn't a competition but it was 2 sites over 2 days. 12 trucks split into 2 groups. The first group of six went into a valley 1 mile long, we were first in building bridges and making the way suitable for the others. it took us ten hours to do 1 mile. we were the only ones to get out that night followed by a landrover that we towed every where. The other vehicles stayed in the valley and left there vehicles
there till the monrning. The next day we did the section the other group did the day before. There was only us and the other landrover. We went down a hill straight into a bog that was waste high the milemarker pulled us and the landrover at the same time albeit very slow.
We carried on leaving the landrover behind until he got stuck 2 hrs later we had to get a tractor with a 25ton winch to pull him out of a section we had gone through in 5 minutes.
We had completed this section 2.5 hrs quicker than the previous 6. These were all special tricked up trucks. Ours was a std 280 with a milemarker. We later found out we were not welcome on any more of there events :?: To this day we are still confused. There excuse was were were not in the team spirit, although we made the way for the others to follow.
I rest my case
If the PTO is already on the TB then its a case of just bolting it in place of the other TB. The only hassle is getting the lever through and up into the cabin area. There is a rubber gromet through the tunnel housing where its supposed to come up just behind the TB lever but I could never get it to go where it was suppose to. So I improvised. If you want to do a proper job of it I would try to use a eletrical solenoid to engage the pto. like that used on diesel trucks to cut of fuel on fuel pumps.
You will need to mount the pump on the chassis and get a small prop fabricated although I had a 35mm flange made and bolted it straight on to PTO flange. The pump does need to be fixed solid to prevent the bearings collapsing. PTO is the better option. if you have auto you can drive with pto in 1 and 2 gear engaged and you will need to install a relieve valve set at 1500psi. If you go that route you enage PTO with all transmissions in neutral
We later found out we were not welcome on any more of there events :?: To this day we are still confused. There excuse was were were not in the team spirit, although we made the way for the others to follow.
It's called fair play Land Rover style
Peter,
By your reference to a 35mm flange & mounting straight onto PTO, do you mean that you did not bolt the pump to the chassis but carried it on its own drive shaft bolted to the flange on the PTO shaft & restrained from rotating with a tie strap or chain.
What is that about bearings collapsing ?
What rpm available @ PTO ?
Why limited to 1500psi ? seems quite a low pressure.
Marcus
Because the options of flange you will get to fit on the pump from the supplier and the flange that comes with the PTO you will have to get a flange machined to fit in between for the different bolt patterns. I think mine cost about 40 pounds. I then made a bracket which fitted on to the trasnfer box so the pump moved with the tb. However its not ideal but then I only use the PTO as a back up measure if the belts slip if Im in water or some messy mud. I will eventually bolt a large pump onto chassis and have a small prop made.
The safe working pressure for the milemarker is 1500psi and it takes a lot to get to that. I have a electronic variable flow valve so I can vary the flow for speed or for power. I have a pressure gauge to monitor this inside cab. If I am really stuck I can slow the flow but the belts would slip as a gauge any way. With a PTO theres not so much give it may stall the engine. The pump needs to be rigid or the bearings wear.
A pump will only be efficient up to around 1000-1500 revs but when buying a pump they normally quote cc per revolution. When buying a mielmakrer they normally supply a seperate pump which is 13ltrs a minute I have 47 ltrs a minute on belt and a 40 ltr a minute on pto and can run both at the same time.
I have some photos of my set up I will email you if you want.
Peter,
( i ) Bill sold TB c/w PTO
( ii ) I went & bought that 290 GD van off ATL so winch project postponed
mARCUS
yeah I know and I aint happy either. I called just after you to buy it but you got there first. I went down with the guy who was suppose to buy it, I have even done an article in the next issue of G wizz. He rung me and told me hes decided to buy a pick up and I told him I would have it instead but it went straight on the forum with in minutes. I bet your not even in the club are you????? :evil:
and if you are in the club I aint sending you a copy. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
........... but it went straight on the forum with in minutes.
Within hours, maybe, but hardly minutes. I had to get home and have some dinner first. :roll:
Q
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Thanks Peter,
I had on balance decided to go for the pully driven option first, your costings clinch it, I had also considered putting belt driven pump in place of relocated alternator -- specifically to allow fitting twin belts ( why not chain drive )
If milemarker good but slow -- what is better?
Marcus