Anyone running a 606A in their W460 or 461?
I've searched here, PointedThree, Clubwagen, etc, I can't seem to find anyone running a 606A in their W460 chassis.
OM606A (OM606D30LA), #606.964
Came in USA '98-99 E300D Turbo, also overseas '96-00 W463 G300DT
3.0TD I-6 24V
~177hp @ 4400 rpm
~243trq @ 1600-3600 rpm
I know some of you must have it in your W463's.
How do you like this engine, especially if you've driven a 617A comparatively?
What real world fuel mileage do you get in the city and on the highway(expressway)?...close to these figures at all?
City: 16.1 mpg (14.6 L/100Km)
Highway: 22.2 mpg (10.6 L/100Km)
Combined: 19.4 mpg (12.1 L/100Km)
Anything else you can share?
I'd really like to put this engine in a W460 as I don't think the 617A will give me the torque nor fuel mileage I desire.
Thanks and cheers from across the pond,
Jeremy
I know more than one W460 fitted with the OM606D30LA but with a mechanic injection pump rather than the electronic one that it comes with. It drives like s*** out of a shovel (some 200 HP) but forget those fuel consumption figures: it does like 18 litres/100 (15.7 mpg Imp) at best
hi there is a 606 engine and Auto G.box conversion for sale on Ebay SWB Silver. sitting at GBP 3000 with a day to go with a 463 front bumper...see Gs For Sale this forum.....
hi there is a 606 engine and Auto G.box conversion for sale on Ebay SWB Silver. sitting at GBP 3000 with a day to go with a 463 front bumper...see Gs For Sale this forum.....
I looked in this Gs for sale forum but can't seem to find it.
Might you have a link URL?
Thx!
yes me !!!
and being the only guy here to have the pleasure, i will say its the best engine for the G. i also a 463 300 petrol and the 606 is much faster, and economic and 100% better off road too.
its so good that i was offered 18000 grand for it, after a friend test drove the beast !!
i am having a 617a fitted to my new project and will make comparisons first hand.
btw, I have just brought another 606td engine for ANOTHER project :twisted:
the 606td IS the best engine ever fitted to the G.
SORRY SPIDER! :oops: :D
yes me !!!
and being the only guy here to have the pleasure, i will say its the best engine for the G. i also a 463 300 petrol and the 606 is much faster, and economic and 100% better off road too.
its so good that i was offered 18000 grand :P for the beast !!
i am having a 617a fitted to my new project and will make comparisons first hand.
btw, i have just brought another 606td for ANOTHER project :twisted:
the 606 i the best engine ever fitted to the G.
SORRY SPIDER! :oops: :D
Thank you!!
What fuel mileage(consumption) do you get with your 606A beast?
5spd auto or 5spd manual?
Straight diesel, biodiesel(ie mix), or WVO/SVO?
normal diesel.
its 5 speed from a w124.
economy i very good compared to the 603,617 and 103 :shock:
about 23-25 mpg overall :wink:
normal diesel.
its 5 speed from a w124.
economy i very good compared to the 603,617 and 103 :shock:
about 23-25 mpg overall :wink:
Ok.
5spd auto I assume?
23-25mpg overall, really???? I assume you drive gingerly, not aggressively/hard on the throttle?
Keep the information coming please!
OM606D30LA, 177BHP? That's lots.
Without getting too complicated, how complicated :) is it to fit this engine to a W460?
What about gearbox, pref auto?
What about electronics, wiring?
I am going to do a transplant sooner or later and want the biggest bang for bucks possible.
Has anyone tried the 280CDI, 320CDI?
I am imagining an insurance write-off donor vehicle.
617A, Ssanyong, Sprinter have all been done.
What is the next level?
Specifically RHD W460.
All input welcome.
Eddie.
OM606D30LA, 177BHP? That's lots.
Without getting too complicated, how complicated :) is it to fit this engine to a W460?
What about gearbox, pref auto?
What about electronics, wiring?
I am going to do a transplant sooner or later and want the biggest bang for bucks possible.
Has anyone tried the 280CDI, 320CDI?
I am imagining an insurance write-off donor vehicle.
617A, Ssanyong, Sprinter have all been done.
What is the next level?
Specifically RHD W460.
All input welcome.
Eddie.
Hi Eddie,
The torque at 243ft/lbs is more important than the hp on these rigs.
Since this engine came in the W463, I've "heard" that the swap isn't too difficult. Get the injection pump from the OM603A and then it becomes less electronic-oriented.
From a chap on PointedThree who has a W463 300GDT in the USA;
"Mine came with the OM606 from the factory (1996->2000). In combination with the five speed automatic it is a pretty ideal setup. However, since the engine and transmission are electronically controlled, doing a complete swap is pretty difficult. Note that there are some pretty thick cable looms hiding deep in the dash and a box of electronics in the engine compartment. The retrofits are all using the previous four speed auto (very robust) and semi-mechanical injection pump....
The 603A pump will work perfectly. It isn't quite electronics free though. There is a cigarette pack sized module that stabilizes idle.
There are some motor mount hassles as the motor isn't small.
The tricky part is that the OM606 turbo is designed to be computer controlled. The wastegate is pulled closed by vacuum which is turned on by the engine computer. Several means can be found to operate the wastegate. I think the most sensible is to replace the computer control line with a relay that opens whenever an overboost switch (from an OM617A) closes.
You will need to hunt down an intercooler. MB put the intercooler in the front bumper. That is the original reason for the slots in the 1996+ bumper."
However, I think with the right amount of perseverance, if one didn't mind some OBD-2 controls onboard, one could probably just swap in most of the wiring from the '99-00 E300DT(USA) and go that route. Of course wouldn't be as simple as a no-electronics 617A, but with the computer controlled ECU/tranny, mpg might be improved over running sans-electronics.
The CDI (ie '07+ here in the USA) swap is doable as well but with the immobilizer, you'd either have to figure out how to incorporate it into the W460 or have a tuner de-activate the immobilizer, which would make it a whole lot easier(I'm waiting to hear back from a tuner on this now. The VW TDi swappers have software guys who disable the immobilizer).
PS--Which Sprinter engine has already been done? Electronics and all? URL link? The 270CDI in the USA Sprinter's have less hp(same trq) than the OM606A but more electronics/immobilizer so I don't see the point to this swap honestly as it'd be more complicated than the 606A;
OM612/OM647 for USA Sprinter, not sure # for overseas G
Came in USA '02-06 Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter
2.7CDI(T) I-5
~154hp @ ? rpm
~243trq @ ? rpm
yes me !!!
and being the only guy here to have the pleasure, i will say its the best engine for the G. i also a 463 300 petrol and the 606 is much faster, and economic and 100% better off road too.
its so good...
the 606td IS the best engine ever fitted to the G.
:D
hus55,
Can you inform us what you did in regards to these thoughts?
"Since the engine and transmission are electronically controlled, doing a complete swap is pretty difficult. Note that there are some pretty thick cable looms hiding deep in the dash and a box of electronics in the engine compartment. The retrofits are all using the previous four speed auto (very robust) and semi-mechanical injection pump...."
--Did you swap in all the electronics?
"The 603A pump will work perfectly. It isn't quite electronics free though. There is a cigarette pack sized module that stabilizes idle."
--603A injection pump
"There are some motor mount hassles as the motor isn't small."
--What'd you do here?
"The tricky part is that the OM606 turbo is designed to be computer controlled. The wastegate is pulled closed by vacuum which is turned on by the engine computer. Several means can be found to operate the wastegate. I think the most sensible is to replace the computer control line with a relay that opens whenever an overboost switch (from an OM617A) closes."
--Again, full electronics for engine ECU and transmission controlling wastegate and all?
"You will need to hunt down an intercooler. MB put the intercooler in the front bumper. That is the original reason for the slots in the 1996+ bumper."
--Intercooler and front bumper setup?
hi there.
my biggest problem was my lack of technical know how.... :oops: but we got there in the end!
-5 speed is manual, from a w124.
-no electronics at all, i mean nothing....and better for it too.
-you fabricate the engine mounts,or get the originals using a G300td vin.
-i used oil filled rubber mounts from the w124, but they are not as strong as the G mounts.
-used the G's steering pump.
-removed the ac,as it failed the steering box on my lhd 460.
btw, my cabrio was lhd, so it all went in ok. i am eager to see if it will work in a rhd. the s/box is the main issue. a friend of mine in the uk moved the s/box inj his 460 40mm forward when fitting a 603A. so i guess its possible.
i had the wastegate changed to the conventional method. but the main thing to do with this conversion is changing the elements in the 603 pump with the ones that are fitted in the 606A.
as i mentioned the economy is very good. i only really drive hard up the mountain pass :twisted: [140kmh, uphill 4th-5th gear. previously 80kmh was a struggle in 3rd]
intercooler is another issue i had...
i ended up fitting one from 3.1 isuzu trooper above the engine which wasnt liked[advised] by all friends on the p3. a friend also said to me that the intercooler is really for long motorway highspeed trips. not needed in slow off road driving.
this sounds logical i guess. you could fit one infront of rad,or in the bumper of the 463 that has the vents,or cut out the space for it..all options i had thought about.
oil cooler is more important. fitting a good oilcooler is what should be priority.
good luck
the na 603 pump is not sufficient for the 606a engine. i removed the elements from the 603 pump[ which were 5.5mm] and fitted the elements from the 606a pump which were 6mm. the transformation was phenominal !!
unbelievable ! this is when you realise the power of the 606.
i am having 606a engine picked up this week from a breaker in berkshire. it will be used for a future project. :wink:
forget about v8 transplants etc... the 606a is the way forward in a lhd 460,and maybe a rhd too. the 617a will not give power no wher near, but do you need that much power? the 617a should be out this weekend. i will report as mentioned. one thing the 617a is better for is the ease of transplant.
in the right hands though,anything is possible.
Thanks for all the input so far.
I am going to hunt the graveyards for an E300 Turbodiesel.
177bhp stock, I had one chipped to 220bhp.
Doughnuts at will.
Great engine.
Would be perfect for a G.
Regards.
Eddie.
hey eddie, if i come across one i will pm you mate. the one i just brought cost me 900, which is well worth it.
you cannot chip the 606 with my method as theres no ecu. but read below :wink:
have you guy heard of the company that manages to push the 617a safely to 300 horses :shock: :shock:
yes 3 hundred stallions!
you know what they can do to a 606a :twisted: :twisted:
more of this later...
yeah right, what does safely mean.
300 Thumbelina's perhaps. :wink:
mark, i am serious mate.
spend a few hours looking at the link below :wink: these guys are crazy !!
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/index.php
look on youtube too :shock: [under mynadiesel]
btw,thumbelina made me laugh :lol:
checkout this clip mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S31vCdcW1QY&feature=related
this w124 carries a warning sticker....
WARNING,DO NOT DRIVE WITH SANDLES!
:lol:
Anything’s possible if you bolt a big enough turbo on and pour enough fuel in. I knew someone who worked for Massy Ferguson and as a project in the 80’s they built a tractor pulling competition rig with 1000+bhp. Worked for maybe 10hrs at a time before they had to rebuild it.
Standard Turbo diesels are flawed off road, try one with massive turbo lag a power band measured in 100’s of rpm rather than 1,000’s. Pretty dumb idea.
Anyone who’s driven an early petrol turbo (Audi Quattro UR, Saab 99, 911) will understand what I’m talking about. You don’t get anything for free.
Russ
just to let the cat out of the bag a few weeks ago i bought a 97' w210 auto turbo diesel just the the engine and box out of it for the black edition!
problem is its taxed so it would be a shame not to drive it around for a while!
I was on the luck out for a auto td musso for a while but couldn't come up with any suitably priced, so when this came up cheap a few weeks ago i thought it would be rude not to!
im hoping to to transplant the engine and auto box from it in to my rhd 460, worst case i may end up have to get a injection pump from a 603, and the older 4speed auto, but before all that there will be im sure a lot massaging to get the dam thing in there!
mick thats a great engine for the black beast !
it will go like it looks :twisted:
keep us updated,please.
my only concern is the turbo and steering coloumn etc... have you done your homework on this?
From what I can figure one of the issues with this conversion (plus other electronically controlled engines) are things like the immobiliser, wiring loom, ecu location etc.
I’ve seen a neat solution to this (Porsche engine conversion) The guy had located the ecu in a separate box with the original ignition barrel and key/immobiliser connected in to this box. That meant that he had kept the original key/ignition barrel etc. and avoided a pile of wiring loom routing problems. I assumed he left the Porsche key permanently in situ.
Be interested to watch how it progress’s.
Russ
I'm doin a 606A conversion, too... Hopefully I can give a feedback in the next weeks...
mick thats a great engine for the black beast !
it will go like it looks :twisted:
keep us updated,please.
my only concern is the turbo and steering coloumn etc... have you done your homework on this?
it should go alright! ive been hooning around in the car for the last few weeks goes quite well...buddy of mine has a mb star multiplexer, going to see if i can borrow it and remap the ecu!!
I think the back tyres will be gone before the tax is up!!
as for the turbo/ steering column, I dont know, wait till its siting in the engine bay to see whats what, but from just looking, the alternator wants to live where the steering box is so that will have to be moved to where the air con pump is.
Great news Mick. I'd love to come over and see some of this project.
Eddie.
Great news Mick. I'd love to come over and see some of this project.
Eddie.
wont be starting it for a month or two eddie, doing a bit on the orange one when i get the time at the moment!
I'm doin a 606A conversion, too... Hopefully I can give a feedback in the next weeks...
sounds good!! the more pictures the better!!
I take it your using an mechanical ipf from a 603, as it looks like your using the older 4speed auto not the 5speed ecu controlled from the 606a?
Mick. I can't remember what gearbox I had in my '97 E300 Turbodiesel. Where there various?
go for it mick. i am sure you will succeed !
rodnex, good luck friend. keep the photos coming...
hi
I am using OM606A with combination of following 350GD parts:
gearbox and torque converter
oil pan
oil "cover" in pan
oil filter
injection pump
alternator
airco compressor
thermostat housing
engine mounts
I used original W210 oil pump and modified the inlet:
unfortunately I couldn't install the engine,
because I have to change/ to weld original engine mount bracket on frame.
The previous owner did a 560GE conversion and his tuner welded a custom bracket
instead of weldinga custom engine mount arm :evil:
regards
Rod
so i guess you have a 350 gd donor vehicle....
does the 350 gd a mechanical pump too?
hi
yes, I have a 350gd donor
it has a more mechanical pump than a w124 turbo.
most of w124 turbo have electronic diesel control.
350gd doesn't
regards
Rod
Mick. I can't remember what gearbox I had in my '97 E300 Turbodiesel. Where there various?
as far as I know the early non turbo cars had 4 speed vacuum controlled boxes as per the w124, and the later 97 on i think had 5 speed ecu controled box....
go for it mick. i am sure you will succeed !
rodnex, good luck friend. keep the photos coming...
huss, do you have any pictures of your set up? when using a 603 pump are there any other 603 bits you need?? how did you control the turbo?
@mick: no, all W210 E300TD had only the 722.6 5-speed ECU controlled gearbox.
@mick: no, all W210 E300TD had only the 722.6 5-speed ECU controlled gearbox.
thats why i said early NON turbo...cant comment on any petrol models.
@mick: no, all W210 E300TD had only the 722.6 5-speed ECU controlled gearbox.
So this would be the question for those who want to use an auto tranny w/ the 606A w/ 603A mechanical IP, getting rid of any electronics at all like HUSS did...what 5spd auto tranny to use that's not electronically controlled?
5spd manual would be nice but a 5spd auto would be nice to for slow steep grades in the woods.
mb has no 5spd auto without electronics.
a german enthusiast put a 722.5 from 320E on his OM603A in W124.
He engineered a custom ECU for the 5th gear.
but the 722.5 gearbox is quiet weak.
if you plan to tune up your dizzel, the 5th gear will crash soon...
it is for max. 300Nm
an US freak sells standalone ECU for 722.6
Butas I remember at this moment it is only possible with M104 petrol engine.
you can use 6 spd manual gearbox from C/ E 270CDI.
it is rated for 370Nm. but it is no plug and play...
the clutch and the shifter have to be adapted to the G Wagon.
that's why I took the tough 4spd auto tranny from 350GD.
no electronic problems, no fears of braking...
This is a very interesting topic - thanks all.
I imagine that one goal of an engine/gearbox swop into the W460/W461 is to lower engine revs for cruising. Is the 4-speed on overdrive top gear for this purpose?
Adrian
mb has no 5spd auto without electronics.
a german enthusiast put a 722.5 from 320E on his OM603A in W124.
He engineered a custom ECU for the 5th gear.
but the 722.5 gearbox is quiet weak.
if you plan to tune up your dizzel, the 5th gear will crash soon...
it is for max. 300Nm
an US freak sells standalone ECU for 722.6
Butas I remember at this moment it is only possible with M104 petrol engine.
you can use 6 spd manual gearbox from C/ E 270CDI.
it is rated for 370Nm. but it is no plug and play...
the clutch and the shifter have to be adapted to the G Wagon.
that's why I took the tough 4spd auto tranny from 350GD.
no electronic problems, no fears of braking...
Ok, thx Rodnex. Any tranny code or part # for the 350GD 4spd auto you're using? Then I could see if we have a USA equivalent here.
Gwagen1(Adrian),
Yes, exactly. This is one of my concerns with a 4spd auto---that it would have non-overdrive revs at freeway(expressway) speeds and therefore worse fuel economy than a 5spd manual or 5spd auto.
I wonder if the 5spd auto from the '98-99 E300DT allows gear holding like the factory G trannies have. Anyone know?
hi mick. no photo the pump fitted. the intake ob5cure5 the pump i think. i will check in the morning mate. a friend of mine did add a vacume to the back of the pump like on your 617a pump, i think i connect5 to wategate or turbo. the element5 are the main part5 to make 5ure you get exchanged.
@jeremy:
the 350GD Turbo came with 722.398 gearbox
the 300GD came with 722.399 gearbox
regards Rod
@jeremy:
the 350GD Turbo came with 722.398 gearbox
the 300GD came with 722.399 gearbox
regards Rod
So I just returned from the G-Treffen in Oregon, USA. Krash V had a grey-market 350GD but with a 606A and 603A mechanical injection pump swapped into it, mated to the USA '98-99 E300DT 722.4 4spd auto. HOLY COW was it impressive. SOOO damn powerful, torquey, quick to move the heavy LWB G. He said he gets between 18-22mpg depending on how he drives. This is definitely the engine I'll be going with, no 617A or 603A for me.
Onto other transmissions to try to use with the 606A that might net better fuel efficiency. There was some talk about using the 722.6 5spd auto from the early USA Sprinter's which supposedly had just a TCU associated w/ it (no input/wiring to the ECU) but I haven't been able to find any info on such a tranny yet. The only early Sprinter 5spd auto I've found info on is the widespread NAG1/W5A580/5G-TRONIC which is a 722.6 but is the same tranny as in the W211 E55 s/c'd M113's(among many other MBZ's including Maybach and a version in the SLR) which would certainly be tied to the engine ECU as well;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G-TRONIC
So, the hunt is on for a suitable 5spd auto w/ just a TCU and no ties to ECU to use for better mpg and efficiency;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Daimler_AG_transmissions
However, it may be less of a headache to just have a 722.4 built to hold the torque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G-TRONIC) or use the 722.398 gearbox the 350GD Turbo came with, which Rodnex is using.
I don't think I want a 5spd manual just for the ease of driving offroad and hillholding that the auto provides--I assume the other MBZ 4spd's (non-G-specific) have a hill holding feature.
OEM G-trannies;
http://www.4x4abc.com/G-Class/transmissions/getriebe.html
Enough of my rambling...
hi
I am using OM606A with combination of following 350GD parts:
gearbox and torque converter
oil pan
oil "cover" in pan
oil filter
injection pump
alternator
airco compressor
thermostat housing
engine mounts
I used original W210 oil pump and modified the inlet:
unfortunately I couldn't install the engine,
because I have to change/ to weld original engine mount bracket on frame.
The previous owner did a 560GE conversion and his tuner welded a custom bracket
instead of weldinga custom engine mount arm :evil:
regards
Rod
So Rod,
Will your swap be using a 606A ECU (I assume the 350GD has no TCU?) or will it be all mechanically controlled (is the 350GD(OM603D35A) injection pump mechanical)?
Also, I assume since the 350GD (722.398) tranny is from a G it'll have the hill holding feature. However, do you know if the Mercedes sedan trannies when used in a G still have the "hill holding" feature?
TIA!
Jeremy
Hi,
OM606A pump is ECU controlled.
I will install 350GD pump, which is full mechanic controlled.
As I know, the hill holding feature is only available at G wagon trannies
and at V8 trannies.
But I would use only G tranny: it has hill holding, it is waterproof, the flange fits directly to G cardan shaft
regards
Rod
Hi,
OM606A pump is ECU controlled.
I will install 350GD pump, which is full mechanic controlled.
As I know, the hill holding feature is only available at G wagon trannies
and at V8 trannies.
But I would use only G tranny: it has hill holding, it is waterproof, the flange fits directly to G cardan shaft
regards
Rod
Thanks Rod.
Did you have this 722.398 tranny rebuilt before install?
What does a 350GD tranny sell for over there?
722.3/722.4/4G-TRONIC  4-speed 6-bolt 1981–
Hi,
no I did not rebuild the tranny yet.
Because it drove very well.
A good 350GD tranny costs about 1000€, a rebuild one about 2000€
regards Rod
Some other good threads I stumbled upon. Hus is in many...
http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=14980&posts=13&start=1
JOIN THE GWOA
This website and forum are provided for the benefit of enthusiasts and owners of all Mercedes Benz off road vehicles, in particular the G Wagen. The costs of development, upkeep and provision of the site are met entirely by the annual subscriptions of club members. If you are using the site and are not a member of the G Wagen Owners Association please consider joining. You will have access to areas on the site that are not open to non members, to club trips and meetings and to technical assistance. In addition your contribution (only £25 annually) will help us maintain and develop our website for future users.
Who's new
- Jaffa_JIM_23
- Wrabstar
- GG
- KTMSCANIA22
- 280ge
Thanks for the quick replies gents.
Sorry, it's been awhile since I've been in tune with the British humor.
"It drives like s*** out of a shovel (some 200 HP) but forget those fuel consumption figures: it does like 18 litres/100 (15.7 mpg Imp) at best."
So "sh*t out of a shovel" means that it "goes like stink"(what we say here)--it's a powerful vehicle?
Perhaps they use the throttle too much so it gets lower fuel mileage?