engine conversion options for W463
Hi,
So I recently bought a W463 1993 300 GE. The problem is the previous owner transplanted a V8 4L Toyota engine in it.
The thing works fine but it looks bad and I cant even fit an air filter. Also, the diff locks are all disconnected for the that reason.
I am planning to put a Mercedes engine back in. It will not be easy finding an engine from a G. But I was thinking something like the M117 5L engine froma 500SEL. Or maybe a 5L from E500.
My preference would be a less complex more reliable end result. The mechanic is willing to do antying as long as he gets paid.
Can the experts wigh in on this issue please.
i would go for a 300e 24v engine from a late w124 or 129 sl. great power and economy plus pretty easy to install. :wink:
btw, tell us more abou this G with a toyota engine :shock: who is the criminal that did this? where did you find it?
rgds hus55
go for the 300E 24 v.
its lighter than the V8, which is a great advantage. i think its over 200bhp too :wink:
good luch either way, but just get that jap garbage out of that vehicle before it dies of a broken heart :(
Forget the 500E engine. It was the very first CAN BUS engine in a Merecedes sedan, so there is very much of very fragile and very expenisve electronics. For example ignition control unit costs about 3000 euro.
Huss those Toyota engines come out of the lexus 4x4's and they are great. I have seen such a conversion and it looked, sounded and drove great. The guy who did this one just didn't know what he was doing.
I would also go for the 24v 300 engine.
if thats the same v8 in the early ls400 dont rip it out to put in a merc v8, they come with a forged crank can take serious power without internal up grades, and if memory severs me make over 200 lb/ft torque at 1000rpm.
very good engine!
Forget the 500E engine. It was the very first CAN BUS engine in a Merecedes sedan, so there is very much of very fragile and very expenisve electronics. For example ignition control unit costs about 3000 euro.
yeah... my though was along the same line too... I knew 500E engines were too complicated as it is, so only more complexity will come from the transplant.
I decided to go with the 300E 24v engine
if thats the same v8 in the early ls400 dont rip it out to put in a merc v8, they come with a forged crank can take serious power without internal up grades, and if memory severs me make over 200 lb/ft torque at 1000rpm.
very good engine!
I am not sure if it has the same crank shaft, but it is the same engine.
I wish I could keep it, but too many issues due to the poor installtion job.
and the guy who did it said he can't hook the diff locks back on.
So, I am looking for the engine from 300e with the 24 valves. Hopefully, will add a custom exhaust with pipes on both sides G55 style.
I will keep you all posted with the progress.
Thank you for the support
leuu, the toyota engine dare i say it is almost bullet proof...but not in a mercedes G :( we are purists :P
the 300e 24v is the alround best option, the only issue i guess will be the sump clearing the the fr diff,the same issue i had with my 606 conversion.
"I decided to go with the 300E 24v engine"
there was an article in the Mercedes Enthusiast magazine in I think May this year which featured this 24v engine fitted with twin turbo's from Turbo Technics pushing out 300bhp plus in a w124 estate. So modification is possible.
A couple of points to add;
The existing conversion is a bit rough but it works ok? Why not get this tidyed up a bit. Whatever you spend on another conversion will cost more than tidying up the existing one.
What gearbox is used, how was the adapter done?
The diff locks only need connecting to a vacuum supply to work. There should have been no reason to remove any of the standard parts.
V8 is better than a six for power.
If you want to remove the V8 then consider the 320 24v rather than the 300 24V. The 320 is a more refined engine and was fitted standard to the 463 so you can always get the standard parts from MB if you get stuck.
Doesn't the 320 have an electronic engine management system? Complete with fragile electric harnesses?
A couple of points to add;
The existing conversion is a bit rough but it works ok? Why not get this tidyed up a bit. Whatever you spend on another conversion will cost more than tidying up the existing one.
What gearbox is used, how was the adapter done?
The diff locks only need connecting to a vacuum supply to work. There should have been no reason to remove any of the standard parts.
V8 is better than a six for power.
.
finally somone with sense!
Id hazard a guess that its a rwd Toyota box, beauty of divorce transfer boxes!
I kind of don't blame him. mercedes mechanics are not very knowledgable here. and they work on trial and error basis most of them. there is a lousy dealership workshop and their prices are off the roof. So, having a toyota engine can seem like such a good thing to have.
excuse me for pointing out the obvious here but whats the difference in any main dealer when it comes to G wagens? :lol:
A couple of points to add;
The existing conversion is a bit rough but it works ok? Why not get this tidyed up a bit. Whatever you spend on another conversion will cost more than tidying up the existing one.
What gearbox is used, how was the adapter done?
The diff locks only need connecting to a vacuum supply to work. There should have been no reason to remove any of the standard parts.
V8 is better than a six for power.
If you want to remove the V8 then consider the 320 24v rather than the 300 24V. The 320 is a more refined engine and was fitted standard to the 463 so you can always get the standard parts from MB if you get stuck.
I haven't taken any steps yet ( which kind of sucks coz I am so anxious to ge the project to take off). I haven't ruled out the option of Toyota engine yet, coz we all know how reliable they are.
the thing is i am managing the project from here and the car is in Oman. I trust my brother for handling every thing, but his mechanical background is limited to say the least. So, he tends to believe what ever the mechanics tell him. And we are talking about very ill trained mechanics. they would rate just a above a tree shed mechanic.
If the diff locks can be retored and the wiring could be tidyed up a little. I might just stick with it.
xqatanx wrote:
I kind of don't blame him. mercedes mechanics are not very knowledgable here. and they work on trial and error basis most of them. there is a lousy dealership workshop and their prices are off the roof. So, having a toyota engine can seem like such a good thing to have.
excuse me for pointing out the obvious here but whats the difference in any main dealer when it comes to G wagens? :lol:
you are right, but at least we don't have that option of a decent dealership here. other shop who supposedly specialize on mercedes are mainly experts in older models w126, w124 and the sorts.
It will be much more difficult to manage a new engine conversion from abroad than "tidying up" what you already have. You need to find someone who knows what they are doing or you have the potential to get into trouble. I would not trust a poor mechanic to commence a MB engine conversion into a G.
I have done a conversion with 400E from sedan if ure taking the pain of converting convert it with something really good engine mi personal opinion wise i love the M119 engine specially the 4 liter V8 they
have power of 275 , torque of 399NM , compression 11 which is the secret of this engine this is more powerful then the toyota crusier 4500 or nissan patrol 4500. they deilver power at low rpms M119 engine and also its econony 4200 CC ,you can find in sharjah . Recomendation is to get the half cut donor from japan.
There are complication to install this but its rewarding in the end.
Faisal Khawajah
yeah one advice diff lock and the OEM transfer case are the real muscles of this beast if you wana take offroading. if u have them put it back, In mi conversion i lavsly serviced the Transfer case Diff locks. We had friend who was also did the conversion but unfortunaley he went to road side mechanic hence forth G lost its balls :cry: (i.e diffc lock were disconnected, Tc removed).
The offroad stallion was deballed :cry:
This old design G is beauty since it has separate TC so can put engine of choice limit of TC is(900NM) torque from your transmission so if you putting in 400NM from V8 500 or 400, is acceptable,
i wana to put 600sel V12 since there is no place for me to experiment i would have dont it plus support of good machine shop :(
faisal khawajh
thank you all for the support.
well here are the updates..
The toyota engine is off.
the egine will be the M103, the one on the 300sel.
my choice is due to limited access to mechanics who do any other engine.
The best nercedes guy in town said he will only be able to fit the M103, with guarantees that it will wrok flawlessly.
I decided to sacrefice the power for the sake of getting the project mobilized.
this engine swap will take 2 weeks.. then it is out for testing period then in for body work.
I will try to post some pics of the progress.
I have a question though,
I found 19" rims out of the new S class, you guys reckon they will fit my truck??
The same guy is also selling 2 AMG cat back (or mufflers??) off the same car, you think they may be of any use on the G?
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btw, tell us more abou this G with a toyota engine shock who is the criminal that did this? where did you find it?
rgds hus55
I thought about the 300e. I am not sure, but that's pretty close in size to the engine on the 280GE. and the 280 was really lacking in the power department.
Economy is not a real issue for me: the W463 will be a second car and petrol in Oman is much cheaper that here in the UK.
Having said that, the 300e is an excellent candidate coz I know it will run cooler and i will not have such a crowded engine bay. Plus as you said it should be easier to install coz there will be no customized headers or manifold as it's the case for the V8's.
the other candidateds would be the M117 (from W126) which I prefer, or the M119 (I believe from the W124 E500)
Now for the crime under investigation here. The car belonged to my neighbour in Oman. I always admired it. But he told me, earlier this year he blew a gasket and thought, instead of fixing the head on his original engine, he would rather slap a toyota v8 engine so he will have peace of mind.
the transplnt worked, but it is so messy. wires every where. and the guy who did it disconnected all the diff locks for some reason. also, no air filter could be fitted due to lack of space. other than that it works and pretty good too.
I kind of don't blame him. mercedes mechanics are not very knowledgable here. and they work on trial and error basis most of them. there is a lousy dealership workshop and their prices are off the roof. So, having a toyota engine can seem like such a good thing to have.