musso engine swap
right guys as I mentioned before Im thinking of putting a musso td engine in my nearly finished swb 460 ute, the "black edition"
is there anything I need to specifically look for when sourcing an engine?
as the G is currently a 300gd auto, I want to keep it auto.
will my auto box fit this engine?
can a 617 flex plate be used on this engine, or will I have to find a engine that was in a auto, or at least the flywheel.
is there any difference in the auto and manual engines other wise, like the injection pumps on auto 617 engine for the vacuum control for the box.
if I was to get a complete musso engine and auto box, do they use a divorced transfer box?
If not can the tail housing form the musso auto-box be swapped with another to make it in theory a rwd box to connect to the G divorced transfer box
would I be better off trying to source a sprinter engine, or something else?
right guys as I mentioned before Im thinking of putting a musso td engine in my nearly finished swb 460 ute, the "black edition"
is there anything I need to specifically look for when sourcing an engine?
as the G is currently a 300gd auto, I want to keep it auto.
will my auto box fit this engine?
can a 617 flex plate be used on this engine, or will I have to find a engine that was in a auto, or at least the flywheel.
is there any difference in the auto and manual engines other wise, like the injection pumps on auto 617 engine for the vacuum control for the box.
if I was to get a complete musso engine and auto box, do they use a divorced transfer box?
If not can the tail housing form the musso auto-box be swapped with another to make it in theory a rwd box to connect to the G divorced transfer box
would I be better off trying to source a sprinter engine, or something else?
Hi Mick, I did quite a bit of research on this - do a search with me as the author and see if that answers most of your questions.
Can't help with the Mussso gearbox but your engine will mate up with a 230 petrol bell housing.
:D :D here's a pic of the airbox ,,mick the digger maybe you could get 290GD engine mounts ,, but that'll only work if the mounts on the chassis are in the same place ,,,,,
not sure if the flex plate from a 617 will fit the ssangyoung muso om602 engine ,, i'd think if your G has a 2" lift then there should be clearance for the sump ,, as long as you have bump stops in place ,,
dentsmithy i take it that the 230ge's starter is on the opposite side to the 280ge ,, have a 230ge for spares and have not eaven relised this , i was only just saying yesterday that the 230 box could be built into the case from the 280 , but it sounds like there's no need ,, pic below of the old 280 gearbox case with 308 bellhousing welded to it , allso old sump n bit removed from musso engine
Musso transfer box is not divorced and seems they have gearbox issues so not a good idea anyway..
I would agree, Bob Sloan here locally ran a Musso Jeep for a good number of years and I recall Bob telling me some tale of woe about the gearbox, a common fault? if I recall correctly, and what it was going to cost to repair.
cheers
M
Had a ride in a Musso engined G460 SWB last year....went like a rocket and sounded great! This was on the 230 manual box...Alternator has very little clearance hence engine mounts custom made when engine in best spot. Getting the intercooler slotted in front of the radiator with plumbing took him some fiddling. Exhaust modded to a side pipe through of all things a TR5 exhaust. Intake through a large bore K&N filter...std air box didn't provide enough air. This would be the way I'd go to add power to my GD.....though pure corn oil is like rocket fuel! :)
.
does anyone know what auto box they use?
or as most breakers Ive rang over hear tell me its the same as a sprinter engine, and hence a price premium, what auto do I need?
as 230 box fits it, will a 230 auto box be what I need?
the petrol musso is a 2.3 and am told is a merc engine as well, sounds like a bit of a coincidence to me that the 2.9td fits a 230G box and the petrol musso is a 2.3merc engine :lol:
You need to find a 720 which was the auto used in the 230 and 300d auto. It bolted straight up to the OM602 i put in mine. Have done 20000k in mine since converting and apart from a transmission rebuilt which it needed even when it had the 2.3 in it have had no problems at all. Well apart from driving over a nissan acar that did a u turn in front of me. Did buy a 722.5 to put in to give me an overdriven top gear but noone seemed to know how it found 5th.If you can find one it would be ideal and the best way to go. That said running a turbo doesel 2.9 into a 4 speed and 4.88 is not bad at all. Have as much acceleration as I need and a top speed in excess of what we are allowed here. I did change the 15" alloys to 18" and put 285/60/18 to help but an extra 1" in tyre diameter makes little difference.. Not sure if Musso sump will clear 460 chassis and your turbo MAY need amoving a little. At least the intake manifild will allow your bonnet to shut. The engine change transformed the slug I had into something I enjoy driving. Now get 700km on each tank diving it but it does whet your appetite for an even nicer G.
thanks for yur reply tanex, thats extactly what I wanted to hear, as the 300GD it is going into has a newly rebuilt auto box.
did you get a engine from an auto musso?
or will the 617 flex plate bolt to the musso engine?
do you notice any irrgulartys in shift pattrns with an auto from a petrol, as it will be set to change at a diffenrt rpm/load?
or am I over compilacting things?
I would still like to get a engine and auto box complet if I can though and try to make the auto work as an, in thery a 2wd box to fit the G's remote transfer, as I think the box will be work better as it will be tuned for the engine.
also another point on this ive another 300GD auto with a tired engine and box, and would like to fit the engine from the one Im putting the 602 engine into, and I will have to get another box or get its rebuilt, so if I can make the musso auto box work it will kill two birds with the one stone so to speak, any Idea what auto box the musso used?
regards mick
thanks for yur reply tanex, thats extactly what I wanted to hear, as the 300GD it is going into has a newly rebuilt auto box.
did you get a engine from an auto musso?
No from a 5 speed Sprinter 312D
or will the 617 flex plate bolt to the musso engine?
I bought a Flex plate
do you notice any irrgulartys in shift pattrns with an auto from a petrol, as it will be set to change at a diffenrt rpm/load?
Your musso engine may well have a vacuum pump attached to the injector. mine did not so had to add pipe work to allow the petrol auto shift correctly. running without vacuum gives you tyre chirping shifts (well almost)
or am I over compilacting things?
No but be prepared for lots of wiring to make the ECU happy
I would still like to get a engine and auto box complet if I can though and try to make the auto work as an, in thery a 2wd box to fit the G's remote transfer, as I think the box will be work better as it will be tuned for the engine.
also another point on this ive another 300GD auto with a tired engine and box, and would like to fit the engine from the one Im putting the 602 engine into, and I will have to get another box or get its rebuilt, so if I can make the musso auto box work it will kill two birds with the one stone so to speak, any Idea what auto box the musso used?
no sorry do not know. But can see the advantage of finding the entire drivetrain and electrics. I do not know how complex Musso got . The Sprinter was not a complex beast. It is when you get into ABS and key recognition that engine transplants from more moden donors become difficult. If you go ahead with this let me know as I put quite a bit of info on a DVD along with some US military Guff that was on the internet before they shut it down. Happy to send it to you.
regards mick
Hi Mick
I used to own a Musso, not any more thankfully, so I know a little about them. The transfer box as you know bolts straight on to the back of the gear box, but the actual gearbox is like any other, so once you remove the TB, you just need to install a tail housing. On the manual, which was a Tremec T5 (Borg Warner), the tail shaft could be changed to different lengths for different applications, which is fairly easy to do. I don't know if the autos had shorter tail shafts for the musso, I don't think so, but if they did, I'm sure it could be changed with one off any merc box you have lying around. Musso's have either BTRA or Merc gearboxes, so I don't see why a merc one wouldn't fit. A 96 Musso had Merc W4A040, 461 and early 463's had W4A028, which is the same box, same ratios even, the 040 and 028 must be the vehicle designator I would say. Later Kyron, Rexton and Rodius have Merc 722.6 range autos which are electronic, also used in 463 G300TD I think. Hope this helps a bit. If you want any more info just ask, I'll try. Cheers Scott
cheers for the info stig, that's what I was hoping for, I thought worst case I could make a tail housing for the musso auto box, the fact that its a merc box is great, just have to find an engine and box for the right money now, will keep you guys posted on any progress
http://www.4x4abc.com/G-Class/transmissions/getriebe.html
check out this link it says which box fits what engine.
also
Black Pete welcome in the forum (the best all over the world!!)
Angelos 8)
thanks Angele
JOIN THE GWOA
This website and forum are provided for the benefit of enthusiasts and owners of all Mercedes Benz off road vehicles, in particular the G Wagen. The costs of development, upkeep and provision of the site are met entirely by the annual subscriptions of club members. If you are using the site and are not a member of the G Wagen Owners Association please consider joining. You will have access to areas on the site that are not open to non members, to club trips and meetings and to technical assistance. In addition your contribution (only £25 annually) will help us maintain and develop our website for future users.
Who's new
- Jaffa_JIM_23
- Wrabstar
- GG
- KTMSCANIA22
- 280ge
I know a guy who worked for a deawoow (how do you spell it!) main dealer, and he is in agreement about the manual box being quite troublesome, he cannot remember any issues with the auto box, which is what I'm interested in.
does anyone know what auto box they use?
or as most breakers Ive rang over hear tell me its the same as a sprinter engine, and hence a price premium, what auto do I need?
as 230 box fits it, will a 230 auto box be what I need?
the petrol musso is a 2.3 and am told is a merc engine as well, sounds like a bit of a coincidence to me that the 2.9td fits a 230G box and the petrol musso is a 2.3merc engine :lol: