rattle from water pump

20 replies [Last post]
hot66
hot66's picture
Offline
Joined: 13.11.2006
Location: North Yorkshire

My 463 has a slight rattle from the water pump ( Mercedes who did the recent service with the previous owner weren't concerned)

Should I look at replacing the pump or just live with the rattle ?

fixwin38
fixwin38's picture
Offline
Joined: 09.07.2006
Location: northern ireland
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

if the rattle was itemised on the work detail at the last service Mercedes would have made a written comment other than Not Concerned... rattles from the water pump area could be from worn timing chain tensioners.. try running the engine (briefly) with the waterpump belt slackened or removed this will prove the pump.. and the tensioners. there is not much in the waterpump to rattle unless the bearings are bad and then you would be able to rock the shaft and the pump would probably leak anyway.....

Roly
Roly's picture
Offline
Joined: 07.11.2003
Location: Australia
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

More likely to be the belt tensioner. Put a large screw driver behind it and see if it moves. With the engine OFF of course

hot66
hot66's picture
Offline
Joined: 13.11.2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Re: rattle from water pump

are the belt tensioners easy / cheap to replace? How much urgency should I place on this job?

hot66
hot66's picture
Offline
Joined: 13.11.2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Re: rattle from water pump

I have just had a brief listen / look under the bonnet. The main belt is pretty new as I know the previous owner did have this snap on him.

Looking at the front of the engine the noise is coming from the unit / pulley to the right of the main block. Is this the water pump? There is no noise from the front of the engine block.

On the unit / pulley where the noise is coming from I have noticed the edge of the pulley has an area that is slightly bent inwards which is just catching the belt as it rotates. Looks like I'll need to replace or repair this pulley before it damages the belt.

mercfan
mercfan's picture
Offline
Joined: 31.07.2004
Location: Hertfordshire
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

I can almost guarantee you that the "rattle" is nothing to do with the waterpump at all. It is a very common occurrence on the Mercedes engines with the poly-v belt. The "rattle" is actually the belt flapping about - you should be able to see it if you look down from below the powersteering pump along the belt with the engine idling. The reason is a stretched belt and/or worn belt tension damper unit(looks like a little shcok absorber).
I'd say get the belt changed ASAP. It is not very hard at all. You just need two 13mm spanners and the back(straight) end of your standard wheelspanner.
I'll try to describe the process here for you, though far easier when you have it in front of you...This is how it goes on the diesels; the petrol ones are very similar from memory:
Start by undoing the 13mm nut just above the belt tensioning spring. Then insert the backend of the wheelspanner into that unit which the spring is attached to and pull against the tension of the spring so much so that you are able to push out the bolt of which you just undid the nut. Once the bolt is out of the way, you can slowly release the tension of the spring. Before removing the belt, have a good look at its orientation, as it can baffle some people. Anyway, so now you can remove the belt. Once off, you can check the water pump, power steering pump, alternator and idler pulley for smooth running. Also, check the damper - it should have firm resistance against movement.
Fitting the new belt involves getting underneath. Form the one end into an eye approx 3 inches diameter with the grooves on the outside. Slide this over the idler pulley and then proceed routing the rest of the belt over the crank pulley, water pump, alternator, and finally the powersteering pump pulley. Once on, just pull back against the tensioning spring with the wheelspanner, re-insert the bolt, fit and tighten the nut and you're done. Should take no more than 5 to 10 minutes :D
Now start engine and check/listen. If the "rattle" is still there, it is most certainly the damper. I always replace the belt first on its own as that is half the price of the damper. Last time I bought one from Main Dealer, it was £45 plus vat(diesel engine version).
These belts should be changed every 20k and get often overlooked. I tend to change them every 10k as they break without warning. And when they do, it turns out a real mess with long thin strands all wound tightly inbetween the waterpump pulley and viscous clutch. Takes ages to get them out :x
Good hint, place spare belt under seat or somewhere as a get-home. Add long 13mm ringspanner to toolkit.

fixwin38
fixwin38's picture
Offline
Joined: 09.07.2006
Location: northern ireland
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

Hi The pulley/unit to the right of the engine block is the power steering pump... before changing the belt and with the engine running at idle move the steering wheel from left to right ...did the "rattle" noise change in any way? have known that pulley to come loose.also with the engine stopped check the oil level in the pump by removing the black knob in the middle of the cover and lifting the lid. if the oil is low or old you can get cavitation and that makes a strange noise.

fixwin38
fixwin38's picture
Offline
Joined: 09.07.2006
Location: northern ireland
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

Hi Can fax you 10 pages from the 463 service manual with all the info about belt. installation. etc.

hot66
hot66's picture
Offline
Joined: 13.11.2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Re: rattle from water pump

fixwin38 wrote:
.also with the engine stopped check the oil level in the pump by removing the black knob in the middle of the cover and lifting the lid. if the oil is low or old you can get cavitation and that makes a strange noise.

what is the recommended level in this?

fixwin38
fixwin38's picture
Offline
Joined: 09.07.2006
Location: northern ireland
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

the book says " power steering 1 ltr" of steering box oil.... if oil smells burnt or is very discoloured it is best to drain and replace....

hot66
hot66's picture
Offline
Joined: 13.11.2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Re: rattle from water pump

I took the top off the steel reservoir & the level of the fluid is level with the top of the 'fins' on the central plastic thing within the reservoir (sorry for the appalling description :roll: )

I do have a slight weep of power steeering fluid from teh bottom of teh steering box

fixwin38
fixwin38's picture
Offline
Joined: 09.07.2006
Location: northern ireland
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

Hi rule of thumb says it should be about (in old money) an inch from the top of the reservoir with the engine Not running.....

hot66
hot66's picture
Offline
Joined: 13.11.2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Re: rattle from water pump

in that case it is low :(

Best get some more fluid tomorrow

Roly
Roly's picture
Offline
Joined: 07.11.2003
Location: Australia
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

I recall that it should just cover the flat white disc in the reservoir which is only half full. I can't seem to find the paperwork
Is that what you are describing?

hot66
hot66's picture
Offline
Joined: 13.11.2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Re: rattle from water pump

Roly wrote:
I recall that it should just cover the flat white disc in the reservoir which is only half full. I can't seem to find the paperwork
Is that what you are describing?

sounds similar.

Just gettin to know the details of these cars :)

mercfan
mercfan's picture
Offline
Joined: 31.07.2004
Location: Hertfordshire
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

There is actually a top and lower level indicator in the middle of the reservoir - look inside for a protrusion from the centre stem with some small stamped writing on.

mortinson
mortinson's picture
Offline
Joined: 06.11.2003
Location: Old beehive, Madrid, Spain
Re: rattle from water pump

mercfan wrote:
There is actually a top and lower level indicator in the middle of the reservoir - look inside for a protrusion from the centre stem with some small stamped writing on.

That's right... if you can´t see the writing then the level is over the mark anyway

hot66
hot66's picture
Offline
Joined: 13.11.2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Re: rattle from water pump

Whilst checking the pulleys I noticed the pulley on the water pump had a 'dent' in it that was causing the belt to wear.

So due to lack of time, I dropped the G-wagen off at my local friendly garage where he straightened the pulley & replaced the belt all for the princely sum of £60 ( incl belt).

The result ... no more rattle 8) :P

He did advise that my idler pully was a bit 'rough' so ideally might do with being replaced in teh future

Anyway, problem solved 8)

fixwin38
fixwin38's picture
Offline
Joined: 09.07.2006
Location: northern ireland
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

Hi well done ..one would ponder as to how the pulley got dented ..but all's well that ends well.............

hot66
hot66's picture
Offline
Joined: 13.11.2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Re: rattle from water pump

the 'dent' looked like it had been damaged by a previous service monkey :roll:

It was as if they had used the pulley as a lever point

mercfan
mercfan's picture
Offline
Joined: 31.07.2004
Location: Hertfordshire
GWOA Groups: Members
Re: rattle from water pump

Yes, that is quite likley. You won't believe how many supposed-to-be service technicians do not know how to follow this simple procedure :roll: