Buying Advice Please!
Hell All,
I'm about to buy a G Wagen.
I've looked at a few online.
I'm quite interested in a 1989 LWB G300 diesel. The seller told me that it was restored by FIXWIN38 from this website.
If you read this could you tell me if this is true and what your estimation of this vehicle is.
Here is the autotrader ad:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201243489858752/sort/defau...
I read on a buying advice post on this website certain engines that are generally more reliable:
"The most reliable engines are the 280 (M110), 300 (M103), 320 (M104), 290D (OM602), 300D (OM603) and 300TD (OM606)
Many of the weaker engines like the 230, 230E (M102), the 240D (OM616) or the 300D (OM617) wear out very early, if the previous owner ran them very fast."
Is there an easy way to tell which model it is? ie is the vehicle in the ad a 300D(OM603) or a 300D(OM617)??
There are a few other vehicles I'm interested in:
1989 230 GE 3Door Automatic Petrol ??miles - £4,700
1988 280 GE 5Door Automatic Petrol 96,900 miles - £6,495
1991 G300 3Door Automatic Petrol ??miles - £8,995 (this is beyond my current price range but it looks very nice)
Is there a big difference between the 1989 and 1991 model is the extra money unfounded?
Any answers/suggestions/comments would be most appreciated.
Thanks very much
Kev
The engine in that car is most likely the 5 cylinder 617 and it is a tough and reliable a unit as any that Merc has ever made. It is not particularly powerful nor is it too economical but it will outlast most of the rest of the car. Check out the 2nd version of the buying advice with my [bracketed] comment.
the white g lwb for sale has a 617 non turbo, it is a nice truck and it has been restored by fixwin. the g is a 460 model so it is 2 wheel drive with 4x4 selectable along with hi/lo range and hydraulic front and rear difflocks.
the later model is a 463 they are permanent 4 wheel drive and are a lot more technical and as i noticed someone made a comment on this site about them 'having the whiff of freelander about them' not my words but i am presently working on one and i am afraid i know what they mean.
this is just my opinion so please treat it as such i think the 460's are built like machines and the 463's are built like cars.
whatever model you choose do not buy a rotten one especially if the windscreen surround is showing signs of rust ,do get it appraised by a 'g' savvy person and for goodness sake be careful of certain motor trade dealers who claim to be g 'experts' they are still motor trade ,caveat emptor...
For me 230 or 500... nothing else .. 300gd very vey very in fact extremely slow !!!!
The 617 is very slow but will happily trundle along at motorway speeds with comensurate loss of economy and considerable noise. The 463 might be more effete than the 460 but it has better rust protection for the rear 3/4s and permanant 4 wheel drive, its engines are better too so buying one is a no brainer where prices are close to that of a 460. The truck in question though does look in very good order.
Axel I wonder if you would care to elaborate on your " a whiff of Freelander" comment about the G463. Since you are currently working on one I would be interested to know why you think it is lacking compared with the 460.
Apart from having more creature comforts than the 460 I don't know where you get the idea that the 463 is any less robust or capable. Its bodyshell is made of thicker steel and its engine and drivetrain has been well proven in the most demanding of conditions over the last 20 years.
I personaly have done over 160,000 hard miles in my 1994 300GEL and I can assure you in no uncertain terms that there is absolutely no "whiff of a Freelander" about it.
..but when the zombie hollocaust / solar flare/ mayan end of the world come comes, the 300GD will still be running (on just about anything you stick in its tank) while the 463 will be whining in the corner that its daytime running and sill lights no longer work ;-)
That 300 looks in great condition :-) and you could always stick a OM606 in it for the ultimate combination!
Seriously though whatever you buy I am sure you will enjoy it. I wanted a g for years before finally taking the plunge with a 300GD last year and I not regretted a moment of it..
Hi Kev,
I can say that Fixwin38 is also a member here, and I am sure he would welcome any questions. His advice has alwasy been spot on when I have posted here on the forum, so PM him, you can always chech it here! LOL
+1 for Big Block - will hopefully meet Axel on the 20th and show him that the only wiff of free lander is the fact it more comfortable than a 430! :) and when you have to pull them out of the mud! (sniff)
Good luck with your search and feel free to post up any other questions
Spider1V
i did not make the comment ,i was simply agreeing with it. as you do not do any mechanical work on your 500 you will not get to see and experience what lies underneath, the 463 is not assembled with the quality of components ,the plastics used are cheaper quality with very little plasticiser in the material (one look at the way the headlamp surrounds are fitted tells all) the screws that fix the wing liners in are not plated (nor the brackets for them) making servicing difficult for a technician and expensive for the owner who has to replace all these silly little bits, it is depressing when you start going into it ,the quality has been cut and the tech increased to impress the owner who ends up paying out big money long term to specialists to maintain it .
the difflock system has been made more complicated and hence less reliable, the 463 (1993)i am working on at the moment has only got 113,k miles on the clock and most of the brake hoses are shot ,the paint finish is gone on alot of surfaces (axles etc) there is a very definite difference in the paint and quality and gauge of materials used to build the vehicle , maybe the 460 was overengineered and the accountants trimmed the quality ,but i know which one i would choose and i do not care about 'wood and leather' it is of course nice but it is not the 'be all and end all' it will not help you if it all goes braindead in the electronics dept.
i stand by what i said '460 built like a machine ,463 built like a car' they all have their good points ,my point of view is from someone who sees them under the skin.. and my choice is a really nice 460 , a better bet long term than a more complex 463.
Well I’ve owned and taken apart both and you are wrong on just about every level.
Screws holding the inner wing liners not plated, are you serious, so what. It’s got liners there that prevent the horrible corrosion that 460’s suffer from. I think I’ll put up with a few rusty screws.
Drive train, pretty much exactly the same, complete junk that it’s lower quality / more complex . OK diff locks but again so what. Correctly maintained they are just as reliable. Just because it's constant 4wd has next to nothing to do with complexity.
Paying out to specialists? Why would that be then, not necessary.
Paint quality / rust protection. Light years ahead of the very poor 460. Gauge of materials, incorrect. They are so closely related this again is a subjective non factual statement.
1993 and the brake lines are corroded. No s**t Sherlock.
I actually like the basic and simple 460, but I’ve rarely heard such rubbish unless of course you want to talk about the parody of a 4x4 that’s called a G now. Putting lipstick on a pig and all that
Ahhhhhhhh Russ is in the building how de doody Russ, i know which G i prefer and its the one i got early 463 not so sure about you and lipstick wearing pigs tho whatever floats yer boat i spose,
thanks for your reply ,it does not surprise me that you feel as you do . i am not talking rubbish ,it is sat in my workshop staring at me. i am an experienced engineer and i am not criticising the drive train and have not done so in my piece it is identical (virtually) to the 460 apart from the central diff and the method of locking.
the fuel tank straps have nearly corroded through with all the gunk trapped by the plastic tank protector ( i know this happens on the 460's before you jump on it) but this truck is years newer ,the wingliners do seem to trap muck up behind /inside them that cannot be pressure washed out without taking them off,this holds the damp mud up against the same metalwork as the 460 shell.
this 463 has to be fair not got external corrosion showing around the back light areas (or usual 460 places) but when examined up on the ramp it is developing with the underseal on the panel joints lifting and the rust starting to creep underneath .
i have seen some really badly rotted 463's ,some with the death rot around the windscreen and massive 'rust blisters' around the back light /sidepanel areas , 463's are not exempt the rust that plagues some 460's
it is a shame that these vehicles are not galvanised as they could be a 'lifetime vehicle' ,the cost of this would not make much difference to the price, but imagine how much mig gas and wire could of been saved?
i spend a lot my of time helping and mentoring lots of people who are doing 'g' projects , i will review how much of this i do in future..
thanks again for your considered comments - sherlock
Surely depends where it is used? Road salt being a major factor?
A engineer friend had a 460 from ex demo, always hosed down the underneath, still got the usual paintwork blisters and no plastic guards to trap it in?
Road salt , bad stuff!
Just to clarify. I’m not defending 463’s vs 460’s and it certainly isn’t to do with defending G Wagens vs LR Freelanders (although that is a particularly silly comparison, you may as well talk about Audi R8’s and Fiat Panda 4x4’s in the same sentence). I’m not a rabid LR hater, the Freelander 2 is a well built, comfortable, safe, versatile vehicle and every time I drive a D4 I’m reminded how old the G is and could well be tempted.
It’s the factual inaccuracies I didn’t like, nothing personal.
Pig in lipstick is a reference to the blinged up junk MB now sell. (but don’t knock it till you’ve tried it Shaun :-)
i stand by what i have said. the quote about the ' 463 freelander' came from another post on this site, i repeated it as i identified with the point being made.
i have seen a 463 i like and it came down to the open weekend (pale blue with orc kit) very smart.
i do not make a habit of stating factual inaccuracies my comments are born from years of experience doing appraisals and engineering service on specialist machinery and classic / vintage cars ,it is a well known fact that manufacturers source from a variety of suppliers during production runs and this is driven like it or not by cost , what i am getting at is the fact that i am looking at a vehicle that is supposed to be an evolution of the 460 (ie better) and it is plainly in some areas not.
i have a right old rotter of a 460 in my yard as a spares christmas tree and it has perfect (and original) brake pipe unions despite being 1983 and really abused , the 463's fittings in the same place are totally corroded away with perished and cracked flexi brake lines ,i was shocked to find this on a much newer high quality (better) vehicle ,the fittings come with a bright zinc plating finish to protect the crimp joint i think the plating is lower quality hence the premature corrosion, all the fittings for the hydraulics to the back axle are scrap and will have to be replaced, these parts should still be serviceable.
i am concerned that would be purchasers of their first g wagen are steered towards 463 under the impression that all the shortfalls of 460 (and there are many) have been addressed this is simply not the case.
the powder coating process given to the front inner wing panels is not as durable ,there is corrosion and peeling of the ral 9011 finished panels ,with many of the screws and bolts having to be cut off drilled out and retapped. the clip on screw threads have fallen to pieces, it is brutally obvious that they are not of the same quality as those used on earlier vehicles.
this forum is supposed to be a friendly (and sometimes lively) place to enjoy and also when justified point out shortfalls in our prides and joys and i feel your attack was personal ,you do not know me ,how i like to work and the standard i like to work to, or my professional background.
i am not saying 460 are better or 463 worse they are the best 4x4 vehicles out there by a long way, in short they are underrated and thank goodness are rare ,hence the high regard they enjoy amongst those who appreciate them.
i hope the person who wanted to buy a g gets one and really enjoys the experience, they are amazing trucks.
I have owned 2 460's, a ge280 and a gd300 and have had my present one an early 463 300ge for 7 years. After the 460's the 463 does seem softer and effete but the permanant 4 wheel drive and the ABS is more reassuring. The 463 has more plastic and wood, being in it is similar to a w124, perhaps because of this I am far less inclined to use it off road than I was the 460s.
If one were available I would jump at a 461 these are a compromise between the two series in that the interiors are basic and closer to the 460 whilst retaining the constant 4x4 and the abs. There are very few around in rhd and the few that are are from the late 1990s and early noughties. How durable these are I don't know perhaps Marcus or Howard can elaborate from their experiences.
the 461's i have had experience of are 4x2 with 4x4 selectable a la 460.
as to durability tony brueggers 461 ex macedonian army (converted over to rhd) takes horrendous stick , 6 ton towing and farmer use (abuse) and still comes back for more ,super tough some of the open w end crew had a drive in it with the musso turbo/sprinter engine (rocket)
the 461's are fly by wire throttle and rotary pumped injection /sprinter engines in 290 guise the 4 speed auto is terribly under geared 89 mph flat out (ish) does not make much more than 70 bearable for long distance work, but it is a top tow vehicle because of this (of course it is that is what it is for 'working professional')
good truck ,good choice, you get the simple(ish) 460 thing with the superb range of diesel engines (60x)
Axel I don't dispute that you know what you are talking about regarding the mechanics of the G Wagon but you do your credibility a bit of damage when you liken the 463 G to a Freelander.
I understand that the comment was not yours but you have agreed with it and considering that many of us own a 463 and regularly work on them it can not go unchallenged.Yes the 463 has its faults but its build quality, reliability, off road performance and residual vaiues are on a different planet to a Freelander. Just compare the '93 G you are currently working on with any version 1 Freelander and you will realise how misguided the comparison is.The fact that you can buy a 2000 model Freelander for £800 probably sums it up.
I think if you were to reconsider the 'Freelander' comment then we would be more willing to take on board your more reasonable criticisms of the 463 and normal service could be resumed.
I appreciate that the Freelander comment wasn’t yours and never assumed it was. That wasn’t the context of my reply but you have aligned yourself with a pretty ridiculous statement.
I’m not going to get in to what I’ve done/know. Suffice to say I’m well aware of quality and buying strategies over the years.
So I also stand by what I’ve said, with one minor adjustment. Your statements may not be factually incorrect. They can’t really be, they are purely subjective comments. To demonstrate I could conjure up two allegedly identical age /mileage, lets say Lexus because they are of course far higher quality than a MB from the early 90’s, and park them next to each other. One will be pristine and the other a complete dog. What has that proved?
C'mon guys, this is out of hand and completely out of context.
The freelander comment (or one of them anyway ;-) ) was mine http://www.gwoa.co.uk/forum/new-prospective-owner
"..Except there's something just a bit 'freelander' about the 463 ;-)"
... and if you take the time to read the context you will see that it was entirely humorous (note wink at end). Simply, the sanitised nature of the 463's interior and electronics was uppermost in my mind, rather than any meaningful comparison of capabilities. I don't think you could take it any way and I certainly don't think you could reasonbly argue that Axel had extended to the degree suggested here by his comments (which as you have said have to a greater or lesser degree some basis in fact).
Truthfully its pretty irrelevant anyway. Who cares either way - there are many more important things to wory about...
The choice here for this prospective owner is between 460 or 463, not 463 or Freelander. Anything that contributes to that discussion is fair..
The prospective owner has probably bought a freelander by now .. :-)
The prospective owner has probably bought a freelander by now .. :-)
At 800 quid a pop I'm off to buy 6. Don't need 7 I'll have a day of rest
Well, well, well - a very lively discussion.
460/463? What does it matter? It sort of shows that we know our trucks - and love 'em to bits! I think that at Axels' level and most of the other that have posted on this thread have far more technical experience than I (only owning a G for a mere 5 Years). However What I must say though is the following in the same time:
Two of my friends are now on their second Range Rovers.
One of my friends had a Evoke and will not buy one again, as he said his free lander was better..
One of my friends has sold his G and now has a LR Defender/county (you know who you are)
Most LRO will snipe at the G, but at the end of the day, 460 or 463 is a far more superior vehicle, most of us are driving 10 year old + Trucks – most still looking in good condition, mechanically they do keep going - OK expensive – but it will do what you want it too. Simple test – to build a LR to be able to complete with an out of the box G – how much extra would you have to pay????
Anyway – Kev, how has your search gone on? I do hope that you are not hiding, due to the lively discussions – this is what the GWOA is about, people passionate about their trucks and with a technical knowledge about them to match! All I do know is that I put petrol in, I top off the fluids, I blow up the tyres and get it serviced regularly, all I have to do it pop in the key and it will take me almost everywhere I want it to go, in both style and luxury......
Spider1V
"One of my friends has sold his G and now has a LR Defender/county (you know who you are)"
- Good luck with that, my Son's 9 month old Defender 110 caught fire today :-) Not a total loss fortunately, someone produced a decent fire extiguisher just in time.
He sill likes it though and according to him (and I know it) it's had more abuse in 9 months than my G wagen has seen in 20 yrs
Sorry to disappoint Joe. You don't have to pay anything extra. A D4 will more or less do what a G can out of the box. I've seen it/done it, like it or not the electronics are impressive. If they are still impressive in 20yrs is another (unknown answer) thing.
My opinion on having 3 460's and 1 463 was i loved them both....the 460 for its back to basics and the 463 for its creature comforts when having a family...not having had to work on them,much I always considered them well built cars...but then I didnt have them long enough to see how they compared..but I would agree the wheel arch liners were a god send in the 463 to prevent the 460 rear rot....other than that ill leave the rest to the experts..so gettig back on topic kev...hope your are a little clearer now..
so weve lost Axel...very valuable forum memebr..didnt we lose needamerc along the way too? ,equally as knowledgable ..to the other side....not guilty on both counts !
For once ... where are you when we need you .. ffs
460 is the orginal recipe. mercedes got it right the first time. its a beast off road but a bit crude on. above 60 mph they start humming and growning. happiest cruising at 56 mph. if yu dont want to go the hus and axel way and fit a 606a your best choice is the fredcosse way, 230 GES. its the best all rounder. smooth redifned and best on petrol providing the fuel injection head is working properly.
the 463 is the on roader G.smoother than the 460. but i have driven a few that were quite rough !! its got its advantages over the 460 , but it doesnt mean its better. after 95-96 the 463 became really smoother. dont ask me why ?? but it did. i know cos i own a 96-97 model G300 petrol. it glides along like an s class.
choosing the right G depends on what YOU are after. where will you use it more is the question as well as whats your budget.
my opinion is search for the cleanest G you can find depending on your budget. careful searching should find you a mint 230 ges for between 5-7k. 7-8.5 should get you a pristine lwb 460 diesel or petrol , i would go diesel for economy.
a decent 463 has to be 12k and over.
good luck .
rgds hus
Hi all
I had tried to stop out of this thread, as confrontation and bad blood is not my thing, however i have to support what Ben (fcp) and a few others have said on this thread and Axel's original other thread / post that is still trending....
I do feel that Mike is more than justified in his actions and i have PM'd him with my personal thoughts around this, i do not however agree with that path which he has chosen and hopefully it would take more than that to offend me into taking a similar course but the scenario seems all to familiar on this forum.
One of my main concerns is not for Axel (Mike) as a person, as having met him in person and recieved his extended hospitalilty in September, he is more than capable of looking after himself and was in a position to offer far more to the GWOA than he could ever recieve. Our loss, as plenty of others have already commented.
The bigger concern and one that has been eluded to earlier in this thread and others and was briefly discussed at this years AGM is the fact that we have a declining membership, and what could be done about it and what were the contributing factors? I certainly don't have all the answers, be it declining lack of RHD vehicles, general vehicle numbers, price and availability of parts etc.
But I think some of the answers lies in the above threads, although many good and valid points were raised at the AGM , I.E. the 460 series G's are now more interesting to classic car owners than to regular off road users etc. I have witnessed many times in my short membership similar situations as to have happened here.
What has become of the original poster?, this new member has not posted at all on this thread since his original questions and it would be interesting to see his thoughts now about the GWOA and whether he will purchase a G and if so would he frequent this site. We do not have the monopoly on G Wagen information and there are many other sources out there where information can be gleaned.
Before people start to think that i am a hyper sensitive individual that is easily offended and sits in the PC camp, i can assure everybody that has not spoken to or met me that this is not the case and infact probably quite the opposite once you get to know me. Surely this has to be the crux of our issue here. It is acceptable to have banter between friends and people that we know well but it is also good to respect certain values until you have made that friendship, in most cases this is not a lifelong friendship that is required and not even necessarily based on an actual face to face encounter.
I am also equally sure that the other contributors to the threads have a vaste experience of the G and have much to offer the GWOA as i am sure they have done before and may well continue to do so in the future. My concern lies in the way we over familiarise the conversations with people that we have never met and know nothing about. It is i am sure not illegal to offend somebody but it is also not in what i believe the spirit of a forum and of the GWOA to do. I have had the pleasure over the last few months to met and speak with quite a few of our members and have found all to be fantastic, good banter and a good time was had with all once i got to know them and a little of their personalities and again surely this is an essential step in being able to develop that relationship. If i have something to say that i feel may cause offence to others or could be taken the wrong way i will usually PM the person concerned with my comment or thoughts, be them positive or not and keep them on a one to one basis, i may just be more old fashioned than my years would show?
I have just tonight bought an iPad on the Apple store and can't recall any where on their site a section where the reviewers pulled each other apart? This thread is the chance to advertise this great forum and the good work that goes on within the GWOA by the pastionate volunteers and enthusiasts and to attract new members and potential G owners to be a part of it, it looks like we may have failed on this occasion? I understood that we also have a forum section for "banter"?
As i state in most of my posts, where i offer an opinion or a description of my past experiences, i am happy for people to tell me i am wrong or that in their experience a different answer or solution is best, this is what the forum is here for, to express our views and to hopefully help, aid and contribute to the one thing that i assume all on here can agree on? The G? If i disagree with a comment or statement i either keep my thoughts to myself or will offer my constructive comments to the discussion, hopefully with a view to making the decision or project etc. an easier or more successfull experience for the poster.
I hope this thread runs for a while yet and that all contributors so far, including the original poster and Axel will add their thoughts, unfortunatly i doubt that the later two will happen, but i can only hope, you never know it may be a way that we understand why the membership is declining and possibly understand more about what the members think about what i see as a major factor within this.
Other forums i have used over the years, volvo, saab, triumph, mg etc. all have moderators or administrators that will remove comments or posts that are deamed to be unacceptable to the general forum. I am a big believer that this should not be required within a small forum and club such as ours is, we are by definition not a mainstream product and as such will never attract 0,000's of members, i think that the GWOA is stronger for this "small community" layout and we should make the most of that and all stick together to benefit all involved with it.
My rant over and i will finish with this.....
My thanks for a continued excellant forum and club and long may the constructive discussion prevail, i for one get an awful lot from it......
Gav
Gav and any other members new and old that will read this....
The problem with this club,it doesn't know if its a 4x4 forum or Mercedes spin off forum...theres a huge difference in cliental...dirty overalls, tattoos and fags to bow ties,cheese and wine..If you frequent other 4x4 forums like Devon 4x4..LR4x4 to name but a few you will see there is lots and lots of banter from people who know one another, and I can tell you it gets heated,name calling,you name it, but its banter..you cant please all of the people all of the time...and there lies the problem...a mix of classic car and Mercedes enthusiasts mixing with some 4x4 people..there have been many guys that joined that wanted a G wagen for off roading, me to name one..they came and went quickly..Dirty diesel...Mick the digger etc etc..because they weren't getting what they wanted out of the club in the end...they were clever blokes..and was showing us their work which was great..but they got very little back,because they, in my view ,knew it all already...so the GWOA is in a quandary...its neither and 4x4 club or a classic car club.
It also seems that its few and far between that any committee member will publicly get involved in these disputes..but would rather PM those involved..its how they do it, so if you think they are doing nothing or not getting involved or bothered then you are mistaken..I have personally contacted mike..and was hoping to do an article in G wizz...which also points to declining members...this has a lot to do with it....and for someone like Mike who is doing these types of conversions makes interesting reading...to those members who don't frequent this forum..so not only are we losing guys like this on the forum but also content for G wizz, for members who don't follow them on here.
Kettle calling pot black I'm sure some of you are thinking, who know me, as iIl not deny i'm sure I have been responsilbe for a few leaving...but most didn't deserve to be here..spanner anna..the guy who proclamied to have one of only 3 V12 made...and when persued in a nice way, it was obvious they were full of BS and banter became more of abuse to get rid of them..is it the correct way to go about it...we dont miss them lets put it like that...However its very unfortunate that guys who deserve to be here, with there knowledge should not be subjected to unfair critiscm.
Big block...Can be sarcastic...I dont think anyone has met him...I dont read into his posts as big headed and feel that his replies in this instant were maybe taken out of context.
Russ280... has been a member for years and has had his fair share of ..throwing the dummy out of the pram over stuff..(my floors littered with them) but all the same he's been very good with his help and info and content for G wizz over the years, respected, and sometimes known for his no grey areas in his comments, having had G's for years, so knows a bit or two about them....was his posts unjustfied...id say yes in the scheme of things, I should imagine Mike felt embarssed and ridculed.
Maybe the people in question could defend themselves as there are many comments directed at the two people that are, quote unquote, responsible for Mikes actions, after all theres nothing to lose now..Mikes gone !
Having been in the club for 14 years now, things have never changed...until you meet someone..dont take any content to much to heart..in Mikes case he has a huge amount to offer...and relativley little to take from this club..so why should he bother really!..no one has gained here,but what is to be gained ? I hope for the future maybe PM people if you think there talking BS...as I dont know enough about G's to even question someones ability or experience, for that matter are these people even paid up members anymore...if not then should any informative info be kept to members only area maybe, I dont know ? something to ponder.
Anyway Russ is an English man living in Wales, and Bigblock is an English man living in Scotland ( I think) so their both traitors and not ti be taken seriously ...:0)..only banter !
Opps there goes another dummy...
Hi Ian
Some good points made there, i am sure your right that the mix of 4x4 and classic owners and the range of values from £1,000 to £100,000 and all that this entails is a big factor. Trucks from 33 days to 33 years old and owners from all walks of life and unfortunatly they maybe don't all share the same "want's and needs" from the club.
I think if you contacted Mike he would still help you with an article for G Whizz, i think if you gave him free hand he could write you a whole edition! Having spoken with him today on the phone, maybe all is not lost and given time he may return to posting his valued contributions, he certainly is still a GWOA member right now.
As for the comments on this thread and others, it may just be me, but i would not walk up to somebody in the street or pub that i had never met and talk to them in the manner that i have witnessed on here over the last year. I understand that not everyone will get on all the time, i am also sure, that i am not the only one who's mother told them that "if you have nothing good to say, then say nothing at all"
I agree it would be both interesting and useful for the guys you have detailed above to put their side to this as there is always another opinion. You seem to have a good knowledge of them and certainly far more than me. My real thoughts and concerns however were stated in my original post as to what the new member and poster thought to the banter.
His lack of further posts speaks volumes to me, but he also may just as well enjoy the banter and for all i know may be good friends with all parties involved, i somehow doubt it, but you never know....
Your comment above is also very interesting "until you meet someone..dont take any content to much to heart" as i would look at that from a different angle, "until you meet someone..dont use any content that could be taken to much to heart" surely we would not be having this discussion right now and maybe we would have some more happy members? Who knows?
I hope this discussion does roll forward and maybe by the next AGM we might have some insight into our declining membership issues, i do see a positive trend though....if the amount of spammers are paying their membership fee then we should be at record levels by the next AGM?
Gav
I have just re-read my previous posts on this topic and for the life of me I can not see how anyone could take offence at what I wrote.
As a long term G 463 owner I took issue with Axels suggestion that the 463 has ' the whiff of a Freelander' about it. Especially since he was giving this advice to a new member who had come to the site with a view to buying a G. I merely made a defence of of the 463 in what I thought was a courteous manner and then explained my position again in the second post.
My experience of this site has been that we are all G enthusiasts but are not blind to the occasional shortcomings of our vehicles. I don't know why Axel chose to be so derogatory about the 463 but to do so on a G enthusiasts website risks the possibility of some members making a robust response. I was suprised more did not.
It is a shame that Axel decided to leave because I had found many of his posts interesting and I am sure he had a lot to offer the club. However I really don't understand how the content of my posts could provoke such a dramatic reaction.
I would like to add that I feel gravely insulted by Peter Perfect who has suggested I might not be a Scotsman and may actually be English. As such I will be withdrawing from the GWOA and at this very moment I am deleting all of my posts and removing all my pictures, or would that be a little extreme !!
@ gav...maybe my comments regards "don't take things to heart are merely my experience here on this forum..as this isn't the first time things like this have happened...there was a very a passionate guy called Merv that made all sorts of waves..became quite abusive...he left..Like I said I think it comes down to the "long standing" members here that may of got too familiar with their replies and mickey taking over the years and expect everyone to be the same....I can say its calmed down and I certainly don't do it anymore...Ive made good friends from actually taking the Pee (HUSS) to name but one....was always having a joke with him but never met him...I ended up going to Cyprus for a week, off roading with him and his mates, had a fantastic time, even have videos on here to prove it but they seem to have gone down now due to Apple doing away with mobile me..will post them again somehow for you to see. I don't actually know Bigblock but I do know he has a sense of humour, which is why I don't think his post was to be taken in the context it may have been. I don't actually know Russ that well either..we said hello and seen each other twice. To be honest I cannot give anyone in the GWOA any knowledge regards G wagens.. I just pull it from here and other sires and fill G Wizz magazine with it. Ive owned about 5 G'S in the past 14 years and my only reason to buy was to have an Off roader that was reliable with "DIFF LOCKS"...I was very disappointed to find out that out of 400 members at its peek, I could count on 1 hand members that were interested in serious off roading...I eventually competed in events in my 2 wagens..I did however gain an immense amount of knowledge from the more, "mechanically interested" members to help with the problems, which to be honest were very very little, but all the same helpful, this is why Bill Jones set it up all those years ago after competing in his 280 in safaris with the All Wheel Drive Club.
@Bigblock....sorry but I thought all large scottish castle were still owned by a Brits since the invasion by the red coats all those years ago, and past down :0)...anyway thanks for all the north sea oil we've nicked from you..helps us so much in social benefit payments to all those lazy "Jeremy Kyle" inbreeds.
God save the Queen
What there seems to be is a common comparison between the G and Landrover products...yet Landrover sells in there 100,000's....can some one tell me why ?..it happens too often in my view, these all to often comparisons portrays the G as superior...which it isn't !.. Ive owned many different types of 4x4's....lets compare a early 463 with an early 80 series Landcruiser per-say...comfort,reliability,engines, axles, diff locks and the list goes on...The Uk uses salt a lot! which shows up only one thing...will it rust !....I owned a 92 80 series 4.2td landcruiser last year..it was great...I owned a Y60 nissan patrol....awful body root but off road...better than a G wagen...as said above 4x4's for me are work horses and playthings...not to go to the office in...out of all the 4x4's the patrol for off road..wider track...more comfortable off road..but not good on....landcruiser for all round ability...this was all based on what I was getting for £4500... A very mint 80 series Toyota...3 x diff locks...leather...seats 8...an engine to match the size of car....what could I get regards a G wagen....a 25 year old slow 300GD or 280GE....bench seats with no belts...terrible fuel economy for its performance.
If i was financially better off would I have a G wagen..of course...always loved the solid feel..that distinctive clonk when you shut the door..driving position with those cleverly positioned indicators which were put there so you could judge the width of the car..try doing that with them removed...on road handling..but a bumpy stiff off road experience...
Lets look at the the 461 Professional ! basic yes, but the cost...no rubber fitted mats...no radio...bulges in the bonnet that look an after thought.... for me these just don't make sense...which is why their sales and minimal...to maybe only avid G enthusiast...accounts don't see long term they see the books balance..how many Yota's could you buy for £60k that would do the same job....im nit talking about serious off road here either...talking about a relaible work horse...car sales are not unique to the UK...i see 40 year old 70 series toyotas here in the middle east still going strong...I think some expect that car Mnfs should build cars to our spec..ever lasting when in reality people/company's sell after 3 years or 100K...on that basis 3 x toyotas to 1 x G...now that makes financial sense....wouldnt it be nice if they all used stainless screws and nuts and bolts.
hı everyone. just to set the record straight about pp. i was gonna kick his ass big time but he apologised and we made up and then went on a brilliant off road day out with him and the crew inc spider ,maxwell,shaunt dauny and the crew. best part of the trip was the stuffed dolmas that we heated up on the manifold of the G !! loved that G560 you had mate, should never have sold it....salisbury plains was another great day out with him and the crew despite him turning up in that nissan !! [never forget it spluttering to a stanstill because the air intake was full of crap. japanese piece of shite !
the GWOA is the oldest G forum. lets be proud of it and take some members inc me with a pinch of salt....
rgds to all.
btw i am in the office doors wide open with a lacoste t shirt on ! how about you lot !!
hus
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Jaysus!!
First time I've read any of these posts since posting.
I had a private message from fixwin and discussed some possible purchases with him.
Then I got very busy with work and decided to put off my purchase until I had the time it required.
Yer all mad - mad for g wagens. I love it.
Keep her lit.
Kev
Oh and terribly sorry but just to bring it back to the topic of the original post (ahem). I am still without a g wagen. The price has come down a bit on the 460 1989 diesel and I'm still considering it. I am not an off road enthusiast. I'm a bit concerned that I can buy a far newer vehicle for the same price. I do however admire your passion for these vehicles and the fact that they seem to maintain their value has maintained my interest.
Thanks for all the advice. If I need more I know where to go.
As regards the rest of the banter about the forum etc remarks about freelanders...
It got a bit boring for me to be honest.
I got some good answers within a lot of other chat. I stopped reading after while which is a shame because I know you guys know your stuff but I would be reluctant to ask again in case I start a riot!! I would suggest starting a new post to deal with any comments which you take excaption to.
Thanks again
Kev