460 300GD Conversion. Help/Advice/Opinions wanted!
Hi there,
I currently have a 1983 460 LWB 300GD 90% stripped. The engine & manual box are removed, the chassis is removed from the body and the interior/exterior trim is removed. I am just about to get the body restored and sprayed. It is in really excellent condition with little or no corrosion.
I want this wagon to be my wife's daily driver as we live in the middle of nowhere and will shortly need the nine seats.
I feel that the standard 88hp may be very tiresome for a daily driver on the roads, so I want to up the power.
I have a w210 300td and auto box, but now am of the opinion that the electrics will be nothing but trouble. I would love to use the engine with a mechanical pump, but I would still need the ECU for the box. I have considered using a manual box from a 300 diesel 124, but I think the engine may be too much for it. I am now considering a 24v non-turbo diesel and 4 speed box from a 124.
At this stage I have too many choices and would really love to get some help..please!
I feel that this can be a really outstanding wagon and one that I intend keeping forever. The build quality and ride are beyond belief and I think it will be worth every cent.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Gavin
Hi Gavin. You are on the right lines as far as I think. I had a 1983 300gd lwb for years, great vehicle, but I always said if I had to drive it every day it would get on my nerves, being desperatley underpowered. I have a later one now with an stt turbo kit which makes it much better. Also, a bit of a slow project due to work committments, I have another with the engine out, and a W210 E300 turbo engine lined up to go in. I've gone for the mechanical pump and W124 5 speed manual box option. I felt that the electrics needed were beyond what a 460 G Wagen is all about. If you want to use the 5 speed auto from the W210 you'll need to fit all the electrics as the gearbox and injection pump communicate with the ecu etc. The 4 speed auto from a W124/early W210 is fine, but you have no overdrive gear to keep the revs down at any decent road speed. There is no option for a 5 speed auto without electrics, although I can see it would be an attraction. Don't forget you have to modify the wastegate control for the turbo if you don't have the electrics. My conversion started out with a non turbo 24v engine, but before I got too far the turbo engine came along at the right money. Thats not to say the non turbo isn't a good option. I think the W124 diesel manual gearbox will be fine, it's the clutch I think I'll need to get right or it will be the weak link. Search this forum and you will find it's all been done, mickthedigger has done the all electric option, and hus55 has done the manual box and injection pump version, and others have been asking/talking about doing it. I'll post some info on mine as and when I get to do it, likely to be later this year. Hope this helps, Mick.
Hi Gavin
Please see my "recent post " I have for sale a complete 300SD W 126 saloon (from Florida) with the 5 cylinder OM 617A engine and 4 speed auto G'box ..and a SWB 1985 300GD with a OM 617A engine mated to the 5 speed manual G.box which we converted 5 years ago for daily use on the family farm that engine also came from a W126 saloon..this is a very easy retrofit with only the exhaust interface / routing and throttle linkeage to modify....totally transforms the G' performance..The engine in the saloon is running but not driving ..the G wagon is taxed and Mot'd
Both vehicles are located in Northern ireland
hi gavin. i have owned and driven a wide variety of G's with diesel conversions inc the605, 603, 603a,617a ,606, 606a .the only one i havent got round to driving yet is the 602a 2.9td], 605a [2.5td] . i recently imported a 662 td , which from the musso. its literally the same as the 602 except for the sump being different and other minor changes. i would advice you keep away from the 6 cylinder diesels as there are a number of problems during the transpant like, turbo fouling the steering, sump hitting the diff, mechanical pump swap inc transfering the 6mm elements from the turbo pump to the mechanical pump. unless you are a mechanic or know mick the dogger really well, think agian.
the 617a is a great engine, and easy install, but its an old school engine and a little noisy.
the 605a from the early c class inc the auto is a good choice and an easy install in comparison.
the 662a from the musso is basically the 602 sprinter engine and plenty powerful enough for the lwb G. the 5 cylinder will be economic too.
i looked into gearboxes some time back and noticed that the 124 300/320 petrol engine autos and the w126 auto's were a worthy option too, quite able to handle the torque of the 602 td.
good luck and dont forget to post some pics !
rgds hus
I can add my tuppence worth. Never driven a G 300 diesel but I can only report on what I have driven. I go between my 460 with a Sprinter 2.9 TD and a G270cdi. Apart from the 460 using the original 4 speed auto AND the 4.88 gearing AND 2wd there is not much difference between the two. Would suggest you find a sprinter engine from a 312d OR a musso as already suggested. Either one will in the end justify all the work and headaches ... My conversion has been trouble free apart from an air temp sensor fault. Does 600km around town on a tank of fuel and i live in a hilly city.. AND this engine is very reliable. .
Hi Fixwin
Saw your post to Gavin, could you send me details/photos of the two vehicles please?
best regards
martin
"What 5 speed box is the most bullet proof? "
The MB 5-speed steel manual gearbox from Military/utility 461 G.. also fitted to T1 vans pre Sprinter. You could get a bellhousing to fit .. in fact most would be Left Hand starter already which would bolt straight on. Sprinter gearbox has the change coming right out of the mid/top of gearbox which would mean removing your heater (it has been done...). I did a fairly comprensive post over on 3 Pointed Star on how to fit the Granny/T1 box .. there is a whole new lot of reading to be done! Not sure what the torque rating of the gearbox is.. G1/18-5/4,7 711.117 and the G1/18-5/6,15 711.116 (both 5-speed manuals) are model numbers so the 18 = 180 Nm I think.. about 260 ftlbs in English units .. which must be about the torque of the 2.9td OM602 (300 ftlbs odd) .. so eating a little into the safety of the gearbox but not a whole lot unless you are intending to tow 3t all year long..
Anyway mate that to the 2.9td from a 312 Sprinter (Tanex did that).. and you have a nice robust reliable setup; I am half way there but TBH the conversion cost of the Sprinter is not worth it for the 1500-3000 miles a year the G does. I did nearly buy a 312 to do it too..
Link to Wolf Gearbox thread = http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/showthread.php?tid=18318&start=1
If your happy with the current situation, have you thought of getting a hydrogen bubbler? I am looking at this for my 500, not becasue it increases the power, but more for a fuel efficency point of view (about 40-50% increase). I can not say what the power increase would be but I am sure it would take you over the 88BHP with not a lot of tinkering and fussing?
Spider1V
Hi Spider,
I tried one in the past and never found it to be effective. Do you know of anyone using these who gets good results?
It is all still fitted to the car, so my plan is to mate it to an engine when I have one on the ground. I think it would then be a lot easier to tinker with and do complete testing on it. It is not really part of my plans for now.
I would love to hear of actual confirmed results from someone not involved in the selling or marketing of these units. As you may guess I am still a bit skeptical about these Hydrogen systems.
Thanks for your interest.
Gavin
Re Hydrogen bubbler,
I imported a kit from USA and I don't really notice any difference unfortunately, certainly nothing noticble in the power line, also making room for all the bits to fit wasn't easy.
Re Hydrogen bubbler,
I imported a kit from USA and I don't really notice any difference unfortunately, certainly nothing noticble in the power line, also making room for all the bits to fit wasn't easy.
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Thank you for all the comments and sorry for the late reply. Every time I visit this site, I end up reading until my eyes are sore! It really is a remarkable resource. Congratulations!
The 460 is just about stripped. Only the fuel filler & pipes left to go. The project seems very daunting at times however always rewarding. The biggest challenge to date was removing the rear view mirror stalk. I learned from these forums that it is best to take the windscreen out first. After knowing that, it was easy peasy.
Back to the engine and box:
I cannot let the 606 go without a last chance at a powerful, smooth, strong and simple G solution. I have the scrap 210 on the lift now ready to recycle. The car is way beyond ever going on the road again. Twisted chassis and sqashed roof. I need to take what I want and get the rest crushed.
If anyone is looking for anything from a E300 saloon td let me know. It is a silver body. Some stuff is beyond repair and I obviously will be keeping the engine, box and loom etc for the 460. If you think I may have something you need let me know. As long as the postage is paid and a token to charity, I am happy to give these away. Let me know if I can help.
Anyway here is what I would like to try.
OM606TD from a W210. Hus-I have taken your advice about the 606 on board and thank you for it. I have spoken to Mick the Digger and I also have a very good mechanic. I am going to also look at the 605a as backup or a second project.
Mechanical fuel pump. If anyone knows the best match, please post the details.
5 Speed manual from maybe a W124 or a Sprinter? Suggestions? What 5 speed box is the most bullet proof? Mick-you suggest using a gearbox from a 123. What were you reasons for this choice? Could you post the serial code of the box?
Enlarge the intercooler if possible.
WVO ready. I have run my daily driver 300td on it a few times. After about a 100 miles or so the engine gets very peppy and never sounds smoother. The smell is not an issue and the engine really thrives on it. I would also feel better bringing it's co2 footprint as low as possible and of course saving money.
The big question: is there someone who has a G set up like this? I would love to hear the feedback.
Fixwin: could you send me some pics and details of the 126?
Tanex: I think your set up would certainly win on mpg, but hopefully the veg oil will help balance it some.
The forums have given me great confidence that all this can work, I just need to finalise the plan, so I can move forward.
Once again, thank you for all your help and interest.
Gavin