Rear Suspension Turrets/ Coil Spring Mount
My rear coil spring turrets are in a bad way, they need replacing. Is this a body off job, or can it be lifted a few inches clear to get a Mig Torch in there, Or just welded from below, which I presume not the best option?If one does have to lift the body , what needs disconnecting on a 463, assuming just lifting it a bit.
I felt the guys in the' know' would have replied to this post but since no one has come forward my reply will have to suffice.
It is not necessary to lift the whole body just to lift enough of the back of body.
For this, loosen the bolts that secure the body to the frame, I think six off. Two at either side of the vehicle and two at the front.
Jack the rear of the body on the body leaving the chassis behind and use axle stands to secure the lift. Hopefully this will give you enough clearance to do your work.
You will need to check that no electrical wires are over stretched in lifting the body and you may need to disconnect some pipe work; the fuel pipe comes to mind on the near-side of the chassis frame which connect to the body. If there others similar do check, I have not actually done this work, it is merely an academic description.
I hope nothing has been left out.
To do it properly, its a body off / high lift job. You will need a lift to do it and a decent Mig if you want it to look good. Tubing (if you need it) is 70mm - I would suggest upgrading to 70x5 seamless (length is 1100mm from memory). Other parts should be available from Gav. They are not especially costly. Cutting out and redoing both sides took me around 30 hours all in.
See pics of when I did mine here https://www.flickr.com/photos/benstoneham/sets/72157630434391060/ (I'm actually about to take the body off again, cut it all out and replace with a dual shock setup but that's another story!
You can do it with about a 2" lift of the body. Remove 6 body bolts (leave bolts in to keep body square to chassis and jack up 20mm at a time for each end so it goes up bit by bit), steering knuckle and top strap mount of radiator (I forgot and had to redo radiator a little later..). I also had the fuel tank out and redid the axle spring mounts at the same time. The tubes I kept. Also replaced springs at the same time.
You need enough clearance to get the MIG torch onto the top of the spring perch and it helps with more clearance when using the angle grinder to cut off the originals.
I am hoping to keep existing tubes, want to get it TIG welded for a neat a job as possible.
Just slightly confused about what I need to disconnect before lifting the body. Is it necessary to remove tank to weld there, or just a sensible precaution?
No need to remove basic fuel tank, maybe so if you have saddle tanks, but you will have to remove the filler pipe as it is body mounted one end and chassis/fuel tank mounted at the other end. I was jacking on the rear axle diff housing and carelessly managed to get it to slip off (rough floor so trolley jack was not rolling). The whole load ended up on the steel fuel tank (just rebuilt) and new crash plate.. no leaks but I did need to remove it plus it gave a lot more room when doing the axle spring mounts which were nearly worse than the chassis spring mounts.
TIG - a toy I have yet to get but they need a nice clean level surface and most end up putting part on bench/rotating frame to get it level.. not a great thing with a G! Mind it is mostly level so it is doable I suspect but I have no skills in TIG as of now. MIG turned up to about 180A on a larger domestic 180A machine with 16A supply burns it in nicely enough.
Just take your time, jack up chassis onto axle stands so it is level, strip the steering joint , fuel filler hose, 6 body bolts, radiator top mount then slowly jack body off the chassis at 20mm a time while checking for hang ups. Wedge wood between body and chassis until you are high enough. That photo shows fence post off cuts so 3" plus some wedges (off cuts from putting points onto fence posts) so maybe 3.5" total and there is a 3/4" gap there already. I jacked at the front around the front footwell as the very front mounts are really just off the front inner wings which are relatively weak. I used Bosch Pro (blue) 4.5"and a 9" angle grinders to cut it out and a solid carbide 1/4" die grinder to get right into the corners but just the 4.5" grinder could do it.
Thanks for advice, will investigate further. Unsure if my domestic supply is going to be enough, may have to take to somewhere with three phase. Won't be my welding skills being tested!
No brake stuff to undo? How long did it take you in total? What did you finish it in?
Forget TIG its the wrong thing to use for this - TIG requires clean, precise (correctly oriented i.e. movable workpiece) and a highly skilled operator. While it can produce beautiful, strong and fine welds (<1m,m sheet steel is no problem) in all kind of exotic materials that otherwise are difficult (magnesium alloys for example) a decent MIG (even in average hands) will produce welds that look great (consistent, no spatter, buildup) and, more importantly have appropriate penetration. Take a look at the welds on my frame and you would not tell them from factory (other than the fact that I bothered to seam weld everything).
A 200AMP transformer based unit will run from a regular household socket on a sensible duty cycle (and certainly at a setting appropriate to this job).
You will want to use a .8 wire and tip and a moderate-high feed rate/ amps.
The trick (as ever!) is to practice on something of the same type/ thickness. Cleanliness (even with MIG) is super important. Invest in solvent cleaner (acetone, xylene etc) and use them (make sure thy have dried before you put the torch on them!).
Finally - I learned the hard way that you get what you pay for when it comes to welders. The market place is awash with cheap chinese Migs (Sealey, Draper et al) that often are significant compromised by the wire feed unit (consistent feed rate is key to getting a good uniform weld) and electronics.
If you are in the market for a Mig, spend the extra money and buy something decent (I have a 200A Oxford and it is a seriously good bit of kit http://www.oxfordwelders.co.uk/singlephasemig.html ) along with a good torch with a long cable (Parweld again I can recommend http://www.parweld.co.uk/ ). You'll pay a few hundred more for it, but there is no comparison. Otherwise, do the prep and get someone else to weld it.
As a final note, be very, very careful with a plastic 463 tank. Even on a diesel I would drop the tank and get it the hell out of there The risk of it going horribly wrong is too high IMHO.
Thanks for advice , will drop tank as a precaution. I think Welder is Murex , so should be ok.Intend for a pro to do it tho, glad household supply will be enough.
The 16A supply is in my shed and wired to a domestic supply board. I just found that if you buy a 180A domestic MIG that it will blow the 13A fuse whenever you go for a max weld. This is my third wee MIG and first make sure you have a pro interchangeable torch as the cheap Clarkes etc have a plastic insulator between tip/torch and shroud which just melts when it gets some splatter/slag whereas the pro torches have a double layer with abestos or similar.. very robust. Second is a good wire drive mechanism as they die. 0.8mm is the only way .. cannot understand folk on 0.6mm as it cannot penetrate and just sits on the top like water drops. Gas is important, Argoshield- light or equivalent; I was renting BOC but now have bought a pair of bottles. Anyway.. £320-370 for my welder about 12-14 years ago.
Time for job.. well depends how easy it is to get bolts undone as you need to pull the plastic strips at the front doors and the boot ..then the chassis bolts may need replaced. Likewise shocker bolts. Otherwise..1 hour to jack up and pull chassis bolts/steering/radiator strap, 30 mins to jack body up off chassis, 30 mins to remove shockers and lower axle to remove springs (the brake hose is long enough .. but I repiped the axle so may have had this off), Oh yes Panard rod came off .. may need a bit of levering to get it back on and the bolt can be tough to undo, 1hr to cut off, 1 hr to prep and weld, Painting takes 2 days..., 3 hours to put it all back together. I did it in a week of evenings plus a day of weekend but I was doing the axle spring mounts too.
Thanks luckily all bolts in back , are all new or replaced in last two years, Also Panhard rod bracket replaced, horrible job.
Thanks again for advice.
Do the top shock mounts at the same time, unless you know for sure they have been replaced already. Before reassembly, research with Gav the different rubber bump stops available. There may be ones that suit your requirements better than those on the car now.
Certainly remove the fuel tank before beginning.
Wear goggles when removing the fuel tank, don't get petrol in your eyes or your ears, in the ears its particularly painful and if you get it in the eyes its a trip to casualty
Hi
I dont mean to butt in
If you have not done the job yet bring it to staffordshire and i will weld it perfectly without lifting body. I would like 100 quid and some beers, Also you can stop over if you dont mind a great dane pestering you in the night lol. She was abandoned sort of so we homed her
Let me know. Ive had years of welding and im sure its an easy job with my kit
I have a 463 and think 460 spring and shock mounts are similar looking at mine. Mine are not mint but solid and i thought while body was lifted i would do repair. When i fitted body back on it was easy on a 463 anyway. Not easy but i could do as good a job as with it on or off so i left it
The beauty of a tig welder
G
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Thanks Rakesh for getting it started. Can anyone give me a detailed list of what needs disconnecting, fuel filler pipe, any brake pipes pedal end, any gear linkages, hand brake cables?
I only want to raise body to allow clearance to weld suspension mounts, not remove body.
Is it only practical to remove body with hoist, approximate weight of a 3dr shell?