diesels and turbos
I have a 1982 300 gd 5 cyl. I travel long leisure distances (am happy at 60-70 mph) with a trailer in high ambient temperatures (up to 40 deg C plus) and would enjoy staying in 4th gear up hills . I am looking for info about turbocharging this motor and or a suitable diesel Mercedes Benz engine transplant that does not involve electronics. (I believe that MB supplied Ssan Yong in Korea with a 290 TD motor that had a mechanical injector pump rather than the common rail gubbinry??)
The SA turbocharger aftermarket people say that overheating is the gremlin to beat and I would rather keep the aircon. radiator than add an intercooler in the available space behind the grill. Any suggestions?
Andrew - South Africa
Hi Andrew,
If you want to fit an existing engine to your car, I believe that the biggest problem is the steering column of your RHD vehicle sorting the inlet/turbo/exhaust system to the RHS of the engine.
There are a number of possible options: perhaps the best is the one you mention: the OM 602 DE 29 LA is the well proven "modern" diesel Mercedes powerplant, somehow the heir to the one fitted in the factory to your car.
It is also a 5 cylinder in line and has a very similar capacity to yours (2.9 litre), but it's still simple with no electronics. It has direct injection, turbo and intercooler and delivers 120 BHP @ 3,800 rpm and 280 Nm @ 1,900 rpm. For comparison, your engine gives 88 BHP @ 4,400 and 172 Nm @ 2,400 respectively.
As far as I know, it was fitted to the Mercedes G 290 GDT (W461), the Mercedes Sprinter Van and the Ssangyong Korando and Musso (now Daewoo). All these three have been produced in RHD as well, so I would assume that being the G290GDT entirely similar in design to your W460 G the steering should pose no problems.
Another possibility is to fit the OM 613 DE LA, which is the turboed version of your engine. It gave the same level of power of torque as the newer 5 cylinder, despite lacking an intercooler. It is however, less efficient than the one above and one should expect a higher fuel consumption with this one. It was fitted to the W123 Estate (300 TDT) in Europe, and to the W123 Estate (300 TDT) and Coupe (300 CD) and big saloon W126 (300 SD) in the USA. So this makes the chances of finding an used engine higher in the USA than in Europe. However, none of them was ever made in RHD.
The last possibility that you have is to have your engine turboed and intercooled. There was a kit made by STT turbos in Sweden that people swear by but I am not too keen on having the standard engine modified. A good number of RHD cars were converted in the UK by Crewe Engines and Lancaster Turbos so I am assuming that the RHD versions were no problem.
I am having my 460 turbocharged this week by TBturbos, they will export the kit anywhere but prefer to fit at all inclusive price as they have all the necessary experience for the 3 day!! installation, their first question was "is there aircon" so you may have a problem there. So far they have been VERY helpful, they have Email: sales@tb-turbo.co.uk I am always checking my mpg so I will post if there is any improvement or temperature change but luckily mine runs on the cool side.
their first question was "is there aircon" so you may have a problem there.
I got a quotation from them the other day and apparently the problem was that they would not fit an intercooler if the car has aircon (at least in a W463). Could it be because they would put the intercooler before the aircon radiator?
Jesus,
Thank you for your info. Can you tell me whether the OM 602 DE 29 LA transplant for a 460 involves the gearbox as well? Would I have to make some sort of bell housing to gearbox adaptor plate?
Andrew:
I am unsure as to whether the fit involves some adaptation process or not. Perhaps somebody out there can help?
What I can tell you for a fact is that Mercedes never attempted to market any turbodiesel car mated to an existing manual gearbox from the saloon range and that certainly applies to the G-Wagen. This is because MB engineers deemed their saloon gearboxes too weak to cope with the torque of the turboed engines.
Consequently, I would consider to get the engine/gearbox set from the donor vehicle and work out whether they could be fitted to your G.
email me at billmossuk@aol.com. and I will send you details of how to fit what you want in a 300GD
Bill Moss
Just had my 1992 300GD LWB turbocharged by TB Turbos of Lancaster, first impression what a great bunch of helpful people who certainly know their stuff. The fuel consumption remains about the same,22.1mpg going up,21.37mpg coming back, all motorway/A30, but, it knocked over an hour off the journey time, local use, all Cornish lanes ,22.01mpg pre turbo, 21.89mpg just. However, the car is transformed, I am always 1 gear better off, places I would need 3rd I now use 4th and so on, it pulls really well from about 1800rpm, hits 60mph at 2500rpm and 70mph at 3000rpm and would keep going if I had the nerve. Overall it performs about as well as my previous 6cylinerSWB (but not as smooth/quiet) so I'm pretty pleased and I should improve on the mpg when I can stop myself from driving too fast.
I would be interested in seeing your vehicle and the turbo job if we ever manage to meet up at a club event. I spoke to them at length about the conversion . Did they replace the big end bearings? Does it use the side air intake still , how is the air filter connected to it? Is it intercooled and if so where is the Intercooler.??
Merry Christmas
Roly
Just finished this and intercooled it.
I was fortunate enough to obtain a new still boxed engine from a source in Austria complete with original Benz fittted turbo. Intended for developement work but never used.
Some creative plumbing for the exhaust and air intake. re sited the air con pump and fitted a 350 front bumper to take the intercooler more creative plumbing to get the air too and back, it is an amazing tranformation with almost unimagined performance for a G. it has been dynoed but without a poweful enough fan to make intercooler effective currently negotiating with my wifes employers ( Jaguar Cars) to use the faciliity at Whitley for better test.
Fitted wheel spacers stiffened and raised the suspension an obvious move when you see where the air pipes for the intercooler go.
Jesus has pics any further help glad to.
Bill Moss
Bill
Did you get a 350 turbo or the 300 turbo? That's an impressive setup you have. I'll check out Jesus' photos if they are on the website. Do you know that the auto gearbox is only rated at 280 Kn torque? You are probably exceeding that with the turbo.I'd like to see it one day.
Merry Christmas
Roly
Roly, they didn't change anything internally ,I did ask beforehand and they thought it unnecessary on the 5 cylinder but one of the lads thought the piston tops on the 6 potter are unsuitable for conversion (wrong shape) but that was unofficial, the intercooler is down low on the offside blocking lower part of rad but to no effect so far, the air filter is unaffected, they menufacture their own castings and also have a machine shop for anodising and fabricating the extra bits, sorrry I am not very technical but I plan to attend a get together one day or if anyones in N Cornwall come take a look, I have an old "A" reg 300LWB which goes like a train without turbo and returns 26mpg and I put this down to being 4 speed or maybe axle ratio's, I have the original build card but I don't know what the standard is anyway, the make of the turbo sounded of German origin,I'll try to see if its marked but they'll tell you if you asked. rog
I am really surprised they don't change any thing internal.
Bill Moss
how much did it cost turbo the 460 and are there any off road places in cornwall?
peter
I have a 463 6 cylinder turbo'd by TB of Lancaster. The conversion included an intercooler, which is fitted in front of radiator. The intercooler is the same size as the radiator and therefore the airflow is restricted to the radiator. To compensate for less and already warmed up air reaching the radiator they have fitted a "tropical Thermostat" which opens 5 degrees earlier than the standard Thermostat. I have been to Germany with my G and temperature is no problem. The performance is brilliant and the G has now 145 bhp. Mileage is around 21 mpg. Off road, well what can I say, in low box the pulling power is just unbelievable. Because I am keen travelling overland (North Africa) with my G I intend to put a Kenlow Fan between radiator and intercooler but havn't worked out how to fit it. The gap required is about 8 cm and at the moment I have only 5 cm. Any ideas?
I have a 460 diesel. I fitted a Kenlowe this year. it took 4 hrs in total is very easy as long as you can do a bit of electrics. The one i got fits on the outside of the rad facing into the engine the only thing I had to do was to remove the centre strength bar and make up another one bending it slightly to fit around the fan If you want any details i can send them including a foto or 2
Gman, the total cost including fitting and vat was £2100. They also replaced a leaking gasket,repaired leaking filler cap,replaced difflock pipe and replaced leaking breather pipe all FOC, they also gave me a loan car for 4 days, £4 excess miles.They also cleaned the car and engine bay, road tested for 1/2hour,back in shop for final adjustments then you get to drive it before your asked to pay, cann't be fairers than that, oh you get 12month warranty and 2 china mugs!!
I have a 463 6 cylinder turbo'd by TB of Lancaster.
Curious how much that cost you and whether it makes a big difference? I noticed in Guerdeval's post that he was told by TB that the 6 cylinder was not suitable.
Maxwell, it wasn't TB that said the 6 cylinder was unsuitable it was one of the fellas who work there but they have done 6 cylinder conversions with no trouble, the only "official" comment seems to agree with previous post ,that all MB engines dislike overheating. Heres a question for those technically minded. I believe that only 30% of cooling is via the radiator and 70% is performed by the engine oil, so, if we get a MB engine running hot consistently would it be beneficial to fit an oil cooler??
I have finaly been able to measure the output of my modified 460. it is as follows.
143 hp @3800 rpm
240 Nm @2200rpm
The cooling effect of the intercooler was simulated by spraying alchol on it.
Thanks Jaguar racing and my darling wife.
All Gs have an oil cooler later ones have 2, they, like all heat transfer units need cleaning and maintaining now and again.
The total cooling effect of air flow through the radiator and over the engine, plus under the vehicle and around the sump is much greater than that of the oil, proof of that is that the oil cooler is only 25% or less the size of the radiator and if you let your oil run low to it's minimum level the engine temp does not increase, another point is that air from the rad is ducted to a cone in the centre of the engine block so attention should be paid to the plastic cowl at the back of the rad that is in place and in good condition. Too many large fog lights in front of the rad will limit air flow through it, thus Mercedes fit their standard ones low down well apart and not in front of the rad. you see it doesnt look as good but there is a reason for every thing.
Thanks Bill, where would I find the oil cooler on my 460's ones 84 the other 92 and how can they be maintained if necessary, rog
Bill
Did you test the vehicle on a dyno to get the figures. In other words are those figures at the back wheels. That is pretty good going.Is your's an auto or man.
What was the details of your 350 conversion you mentioned some time back?
Roly
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If you want to fit an existing engine to your car, I believe that the biggest problem is the steering column of your RHD vehicle sorting the inlet/turbo/exhaust system to the RHS of the engine.
There are a number of possible options: perhaps the best is the one you mention: the OM 602 DE 29 LA is the well proven "modern" diesel Mercedes powerplant, somehow the heir to the one fitted in the factory to your car.
It is also a 5 cylinder in line and has a very similar capacity to yours (2.9 litre), but it's still simple with no electronics. It has direct injection, turbo and intercooler and delivers 120 BHP @ 3,800 rpm and 280 Nm @ 1,900 rpm. For comparison, your engine gives 88 BHP @ 4,400 and 172 Nm @ 2,400 respectively.
As far as I know, it was fitted to the Mercedes G 290 GDT (W461), the Mercedes Sprinter Van and the Ssangyong Korando and Musso (now Daewoo). All these three have been produced in RHD as well, so I would assume that being the G290GDT entirely similar in design to your W460 G the steering should pose no problems.
Another possibility is to fit the OM 613 DE LA, which is the turboed version of your engine. It gave the same level of power of torque as the newer 5 cylinder, despite lacking an intercooler. It is however, less efficient than the one above and one should expect a higher fuel consumption with this one. It was fitted to the W123 Estate (300 TDT) in Europe, and to the W123 Estate (300 TDT) and Coupe (300 CD) and big saloon W126 (300 SD) in the USA. So this makes the chances of finding an used engine higher in the USA than in Europe. However, none of them was ever made in RHD.
The last possibility that you have is to have your engine turboed and intercooled. There was a kit made by STT turbos in Sweden that people swear by but I am not too keen on having the standard engine modified. A good number of RHD cars were converted in the UK by Crewe Engines and Lancaster Turbos so I am assuming that the RHD versions were no problem.