460 - 280 - Petrol - Running Costs
Hi - I'm new to this forum - but have recently bought a 460 280 Petrol G Wagen 5 door first registered in 1985. The engine runs fine and all is well except I need to replace the Crank Shaft Oil Seals front and back. I was amazed to find you need to lift out the engine to do this. So having been given a garage quote of £1050 plus VAT, I am working my way through lifting the engine and attempting this seal swap myself.
Wish me luck.......
I have noticed that when driving, in order to keep the fuel consumption down a bit I keep the revs down to 3000 but this only gives me about 55-65 MPH. The gearbox is a manual 4 speed which works well but I need something that will give more miles per revs to help with the fuel consumption. I wonder if there is a better gearbox that would go straight in??.
I had considered an Autogas installation but expect that could be quite expensive on a 6 cylinder engine, that may not produce a large improvement in cost per mile.
Are there any suggestions out there for a fairly inexperienced spanner man.
Thanks for any help given.
I had the 5 speed manual 230GE and it was a dream. That 5th gear made all the difference.
I have a 230GE auto and I feel the same there - needs another gear. Maybe a different ratio differential would be an option... but would mess up the speedo
I also gave up trying to get fuel economy from my older Gs. Variously get from 13mpg to 18mpg (edited) max.
I went modern with a G350 CDi and that returns a very decent 22 to 26mpg and very smooth.
I looked at LPG conversion for the older petrols, but decided it wasn't worth the investment to do or the hassle lots of people had. Next idea is to wait for the electric G !! (and take out a mortgage).
An auto will give a swb a sub 15 mpg, manual better and a 5 speed better still but circa 18-20, so not great, lots of alternative engines out there from V8's to diesels most have been tried by someone on the forum. Even a diesel will only give you 25mpg but on an older 5 cylinder unit you can put almost anything in the tank. Even the lightest swb is 2 tons and brick shaped so we can't expect miraculous fuel consumption. If it were me, and I do like the 280 engine, I'd probably look for a 5 speed gearbox
Next idea is to wait for the electric G !!
Agree, the destruction caused in creating short term batteries [they lose reliability after just 5 years] out weighs the benefits, repair and maintenance of older cars and stopping production of new models makes more sense to me.
I don't disagree with either of you but the die seems to be set - no more petrol or deisel engines fairly soon.
Maybe battery production will overcome the negatives given how much investment is being ploughed into continuing development.
Or how about hydrogen?
Battery vs Hydrogen - which is going to turn out to be the modern Betamax? Or maybe they'll be able to co-exist? Or maybe somethin else will come along that we haven't thought about yet.
Without sounding dismissive or negative
If you're looking for 25mpg plus... sell the G and buy something else
real life MPG will struggle to achieve that no matter what set up you have
Around 20 or below is about most you're gonna get without an engine swap
280's hate gas
£8/10k on an engine swap is disirable for usability and drivability and fun factor
Not much in there about MPG though!
Still expect 25mpg at best apart from the odd long run...
G ownership and MPG concerns are different conversations unfortunately
It's the aero dynamics :0(
Without sounding dismissive or negative
If you're looking for 25mpg plus... sell the G and buy something else
real life MPG will struggle to achieve that no matter what set up you have
Around 20 or below is about most you're gonna get without an engine swap
280's hate gas
£8/10k on an engine swap is disirable for usability and drivability and fun factor
Not much in there about MPG though!
Still expect 25mpg at best apart from the odd long run...
G ownership and MPG concerns are different conversations unfortunately
It's the aero dynamics :0(
You will really struggle to get 25 on a diesel too in every day use, if you compare the weight of the G 2 tons or so with that of a saloon that used the 280 engine, circa 1 1/4 tons and the 14-16 isn't that bad, forget lpg though it just doesn't work
25mpg , would only be possible if no hills, tyres pumped to 60psi, dont exceed 40mph! Move to Holland!
On a run , keeping my 603 at indicated 60, ( about 54 on sat nav, ) about 25, tho go up to 70mphm drops significantly m running around locally 19 ish?
Definitely is the aerodynamics but they make the G!
You could go modern! Spend the money that way.
A G350Cdi (Bluetech) returns 23mpg all day long combined use. 26+ on a cruise. I reckon I could coax it to 30mpg but never had the patience to try.
But 463 G350s-G63s are a different experience. Still immensely capable 4x4, but rarely used as such and more of a street SUV. You get a different stare driving along also. But I love the extra comfort and mod cons.
That ties in to my ge300 manual, overall 19, but more on a run, my w124 300e auto gets 25 mpg however its used, that though was lighter and when new had class leading aerodynamics
Also, winter temperatures really affect economy, all that oil drag when it's cold, summer a lot less resistance?
Also, winter temperatures really affect economy, all that oil drag when it's cold, summer a lot less resistance?
Sure, but only for the warm up time. Once it is at 85C, its the same, right? So little or no difference on any distance journeys. Though I always got the impression that cold air intake influenced combustion. There is a little explanation here, which is about cold air having more O2 and damp air having some water vapour which increases expansion during combustion. Go Figure.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cars-perform-best-when-it-s-cold-and-dam...
Hi to All - and thank you all for your responses - being new to G Wagon and forums in general - this is great to hear the experiences of others with the same or similar vehicles. Sadly you only find out about things like fuel economy and the like soon after purchase. Not being a wealthy person - 14-16 MPG is way too expensive for me in the UK. I will look at a gearbox swap asap as the engine is out for crankshaft oil seal replacements front and back - what a crazy design on the 280 Petrol where the engine has to come out to swop a crankshaft rear oil seal. But if it gets me onto a 5 speed gearbox I won't mind so much. 20-25 MPG will do - I'd prefer 30 as I can live with that. Maybe I could swop to a 123 diesel and gearbox if I could find some at the right price. Does anyone know what is involved in swopping a) a 717.431 5 speed gearbox to a 280 Petrol engine. b) swopping out the 280 Petrol and 4 speed gearbox to insert a 123 or 300 diesel and gearbox. In the latter - what might be the MPG. Any info would be great and much appreciated.
As far as the planet is concerned - if we developed Bio-Diesel more, that would mean we could run combution diesel without the Nox polution. Also if we developed Autogas more - we could run Petol combution - all without much of the Nox polution. That would also give the oil and gas industry somewhere to go in the forseeable future. Might not save the planet immediately but would help alot in polution to our cities. Only my opinion - and I may be misinformed but would welcome other workable views and ideas. Electric is going to be too expensive for many for along time to come - and heavy on materials in the poorest parts of the world - we souldn't plunder them again without really sorting out their problems - which is within the abilities of the West without a problem - we must do more for Africa - we plundered it for long enough and diddn't put anything like enough back to the people - they are still starving.
Thanks again everyone - great forum.
Yours John